R&D's Secret Lair question...

[mrraow]

Goblin Bomb according to gatherer:

At the beginning of your upkeep, you may flip a coin. If you win the flip, put a fuse counter on Goblin Bomb. If you lose the flip, remove a fuse counter from Goblin Bomb.
Remove five fuse counters from Goblin Bomb, Sacrifice Goblin Bomb: Goblin Bomb deals 20 damage to target player.

According to the card, it said "during your upkeep" instead of "at the beginniong of your upkeep".

So, the question is, does that mean that with the original wording in place, you can use the ability any number of times? If so, I think we have good combo with Chance Encounter + R&D secret lair + Goblin Bomb... wait until the trigger for Chance Encounter goes on the stack at the beginning of your upkeep, and keep responding with goblin bomb until you have 10 counters.

[GRUNT]

I thought that the old wording no longer applies with the new wording out? o_0

And even if the old wording still worked, I think that the 'may flip A coin' pretty much means that you can flip only one. If you could flip it any number of times, you could just keep flipping for all eternity or until you EVENTUALLY get 5 fuse counters :P. Then you won't even need chance encounter to win :P.

[mrraow]

R&D's Secret Lair is an Unhinged card that reinstates the old wording.
But good point; you probably don't need the Chance Encounter.
Which is even better, of course.

My mind was fixed on Chance Encounter, since Chance Encounter + Frenetic Efreet + R&D's Secret lair does win, and I was looking at increasing the odds of drawing the combo.

[PerfectCell]

If you do something during your upkeep, it only occurs once unless the card specifically says otherwise. Jesus.

[Ultima66]

So Brass Man sucks with Secret Lair since you have to pay during your untap step and can only do it once since abilities can't be played during the untap step, and with the old wording, untapping isn't an ability.

Lol anti-brass man card.

[thegeneralpublic]

"during your upkeep" implied only once i believe...but you could argue that it could do it more than once. If so, R&D's Secret Lair, Force of Nature, 2x Loxodon Warhammer baybay!

[UyOwned]

Loxodon Warhammer?

Anyways, I dont think R+D's secret lair makes cards trigger multiple times "during your upkeep" And a simple note: Once frenetic efreet's ability resolves and a tail is flipped, it is sent to the graveyard. This means you have to stack all instances of the ability BEFORE you flip any coins. Even though you can do this indefinitely, you have to state a finite number. Theoretically, if you were insanely unlucky, chance encounter + frenetic efreet + R+D's secret lair wouldn't win.

Also: a quick ruling question: if R+D's secret lair is out and many activations of the efreet are on the stack, do you have to flip a coin for each one? Is there a danger in stacking millions of triggers? Do you REALLY want to be kicked out of your playgroup forever for pulling this off?

[thegeneralpublic]

R&D would not trigger multiple "during your upkeep" abilities. And if it did, I'd have to build a deck around it and get thrown out of my playgroup. :P

[mrraow]

Theoretically, if you were insanely unlucky, chance encounter + frenetic efreet + R+D's secret lair wouldn't win.
Good point. And I am insanely unlucky. I usually stack a googleplex triggers (10^(10^100)) so my opponent will concede rather than watch me toss a coin until the heat-death of the universe comes along :)

The thing about the goblin bomb wording... during your upkeep... is that it is neither fish nor fowl. These days - if I understand correctly - activated abilities require a colon these days, i.e. 0:flip a coin... triggered abilities trigger in response to an event, which is why the errata says "at the beginning of your upkeep" or "at the end of your upkeep" under the new wording. "during your upkeep" isn't an event, so I reason that it either triggers as many times as you like (how finely can you slice your upkeep?), or not at all. Hence the question...

[Æther Reaper]

Goblin bomb is a triggered ability. Each time the trigger is satisfied (in this case, your upkeep step), you may use the ability. You only get one upkeep step, thus you only get one trigger. You may only use goblin bomb once per turn, even with Secret Lair of R&D.