How does Selesnya beat Golgari in a type 2 environment?

[GRUNT]

Well, as you can see from that other thread I made about rules, I have a friend who loves using Hunted Horror and Necroplasm. This unfortunately, equates to total slaughter against my selesnya deck, and the fact that he can dredge his necroplasm back doesn't help, either =/.

Does anyone have any tips on how to beat the Golgari with a Selesnya deck in a type 2 environment?

[Ultima66]

Well after the turn he gets it off, you can drop a Transluminant, which dies next turn, getting you a spirit, which then chump blocks again letting the Necroplasm kill off his own Horror.

Devouring Light also tears apart the Horror and possibly the Necro, so Selesnya should be 4xing DL. Master Warcraft played as white can also kill off the Necro and let you DL their creatures.

And let's not forget to run some Recollect to get back your DL and possibly MW.

[GRUNT]

The trouble is that the horror has trample, so there's no chump blocking :(.

He also sacrifices a Shambling SHell (I think that's what it is) to give his necroplasm a total of 3 +1/+1 counters on the second turn since he's been in play, so his Hunted Horror doesn't die. Slaughter slaughter slaughter >_<. With Elves of Deep Shadow, he can get this combo out disturbingly fast.

The annoying thing is that he knows he doesn't need to attack with his Necroplasm, so I can't DL it :(. I see what you mean by following master warcraft with DL, but that takes 7 mana (I suppose I could convoke, but it'd still be a bit expensive).

Ah well, thanks for your tips! I have no master warcraft, but I'll try and make do with what I have ;).

If you or anybody else have more tips, they'd be more than welcome (=.

[lionden_56]

Faith's Fetters works fairly well. You gain 4, horror can't attack.
On the more expensive end of things...Pithing Needle shuts down Shambling shell, so the Necro will kill the horror, then itself. Unfortunately that will run you about 20 bucks. And because Necro is a triggered ability, Pithing needle can't do anything to it.
In desperation, maybe try green and white hondens. With both in play, you get 2 creatures per and 4 life. If the centaurs live past the first Necro and you can get a spirit from the honden, you kill the horror if it attacks. (I personally don't think the last one is really viable, but it is a suggestion.)

[GRUNT]

Good idea with the faith's fetters :).

But that necroplasm is still a pain....convoke is useless since all the things that I CAN convoke with are killed off by that fat ooze of his.

Meanwhile he stomps me with gleancrawlers >_<. Those things are pure ownage. 6/6 trample for 6 mana is by itself damn cool, but returning creatures that died to your hand every turn? o_0

A shame I have no pithing needle :(. ANd Faith's Fetters wont work on the Gleancrawler because it's a triggered ability, right? Oh, and Faith's Fetters says: "except mana abilities", does that mean I cant cast it on a drooling groodion?

What's making me peeved is that he's using Ravnica-only cards :P. I think I'll need to resort to Kamigawa and 9th ed cards to help me win :P.

[lionden_56]

Faith's fetters works on the groodion. The mana is part of the activation cost. Mana abilities are like Llanowar elves or Orochi Sustainer (<Tap>: Add <G> to your mana pool) Those can't be countered.

Necro can't be fettered because it is a triggered ability. If you fetter a Gleencrawler, it can't attack or block. The second part of fetters doesn't have to be met when selecting a target. Gleencrawler's ability will trigger when stuff hits the graveyard, but at least he won't smash your face for 6 every turn.

[Ultima66]

You know, Hunted Troll can be hell to Necro/Horror, if you can ward off the flyers.

Glare of Subdual will just make him hate you like crazy, but it's really hard to get Glare.

Doubling Season also makes Necro hit even creatures, but that doesn't help with Tokens. It'll still keep 1 drops as well as Scion alive, and a Scion should hold off their Horror.

Oh, and if you can Flickerform their Horror, you'll get free Centaurs every turn and they'll avoid Necroplasm. After a few turns of blocking (pro black laughs at their creatures) swing for the win. And it'll keep the Horror off of your back, so they'll either swing with Gleancrawler and lose to tokens, or not attack at all and give you more time to build up. The only way they can stop it is by saccing both creatures and replaying them next turn after getting them back from Gleancrawler, which won't work because you simply Flicker their Horror in response. They'll get back their Necro next turn, but you still hit for 6 damage then get more tokens after they replay the Necro. And they're STILL not getting in any attacks from that Horror because you'll just Flicker it when they try to hit you.

[Maleficent]

Haha Flickerform on a Hunted Horror, nice. Voyager Staff does the same thing for one turn and it's uncommon.

Maybe Twilight Drover would help? That card is sick lol. Or maybe splash some red for Boros Fury-Shield, 7 damage for 3! Or Phytohydra to block the horror :twisted: .

Oh and in case you didn't know, his Gleancrawler only brings his creatures back on HIS turn :) .

[Ultima66]

Flickerform is a little unorthodox but it pisses the crap out of them if you DO use it.

Twilight Drover gets run over by Trample and killed by Necroplasm.

Phytohydra means they'll trample you and only send 1 damage at Phyto, so it gets only 1 1/1 counter. And they can Putrefy.

Yeah, Gleancrawler as a 6/6 Trampler is the main point, since the Horror will almost never die and the Necro just revives itself wiht Dredge.

[mrraow]

Seeds of Strength on his Necroploasm?

[Ultima66]

Seeds of Strength isn't 1/1 counters.

[mrraow]

Seeds of Strength isn't 1/1 counters.
D'oh. Read the card, Stephen!

[PerfectCell]

Phytohydra has to be destroyed before trample can go through. With the replacement effect, it doesn't go through, unless I read something horribly wrong or trample changed from 6th.
For the Conclave, Necroplasm is a death knell. Your best bet is Fetters and Flickerform on the Horror *after* he does his Shell trick. If you can swing out a quick Loxodon Heirarch, all the better. It's basically a quality rare lockdown, and since you can't mess with the Necroplasm, you've got to deal with the Horror.

[Massive Equipment]

502.9d Assigning damage from a creature with trample considers only the actual toughness of a blocking creature, not any abilities or effects that might change the final amount of damage dealt.
Example: A 6/6 green creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature with protection from green. The attacking creature’s controller must assign at least 2 damage to the blocker, even though that damage will be prevented by the blocker’s protection ability. The attacking creature’s controller can then choose to assign the rest of the damage to the defending player.


according to this, i think that the trampler need only assign damage equal to the phytohydra's current toughness and the rest can trample over.

[Einsteinmonkey]

Originally posted by Massive Equipment
according to this, i think that the trampler need only assign damage equal to the phytohydra's current toughness and the rest can trample over.
That's correct.

[PerfectCell]

Yeah, I found out how wrong that was when I threw a Beloved Chaplain in front of a 46/46 Terravore. D'oh.

[Tekkactus]

How did you manage to kill 46 lands? I know it had to be several players, but jeebus! :shock:

[PerfectCell]

He had some stupid enchantment that made lands into 1/1s, 3 Goblin Sharpshooters, 3 Howling Mines, and so on. Don't even get me started, I was ready to punch him in the face. Freakin' 8 player FFA = insanity....says the guy who got Congregate for 190 life.