November 2009 - MCC - Discussion Thread [Archive]

p-chan

11-02-2009, 08:03 AM

Feeeeeeeeeeeedbaaaaaaaaaaaaack!!!!!!

@YWN: Hell, I'm more convinced than ever of that some sort of sick-walrus-art-gallery has fallen into your hands XD

@Evol: It's for sure an original way for green to kill creatures, making them "become one with the mana", and I love it indeed. But, flavourfuly, this creature has nothing to do with assassins, more with druids maybe. Oh, and for the art, I doubt that impaling someone with an arrow you will make them become mana XD. Also, it's overcosted, 2GG is more than enought for her.

@TH: Simple yet efficient. In any case, the second ability's cost could be just sacrifice him; he would become much better, and it wouldn't become overwhelming at all.

@Tekk: VAMPIRE FUNGUS??? I ... I ... hell, I love it, and I hate myself for it.

@Cashew: Great entry, but I doubt it will be your last, so ... and in any case, "Elephino" is more like the name of a clown ore something like that XD

@Kamhal: I love elf warriors, and I love this too. But maybe a 2/2 for two mana would make it more playable.

@Cogline: Maybe a little undercosted ... I would rise up the cost of the ability to 1GG.

And for mine, well, It's my first time designing a big 5-color fattie lord, á la Genju of the Realm, Atogatog or any Sliver boss (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[sliver]&color=+[W]+[U]+[B]+[R]+[G]). I think I balanced the abilites well, but it's hard to say ... any toughts? Oh, and the art and the name may change as well, but the difficult part is that a Zubera must be faceless, and it makes it harder to find a suitable art.

GG Crono

11-02-2009, 11:40 AM

I must give props to Tekkaktus for helping me with the name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilant) and the flavor text attribution.

Also, I'm aware that using +1/+1 and -1/-1 counter mechanics on the same card is kind of iffy, design wise, but frankly, it's cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) this way, so I care not. :D

That aside, any thoughts?

ThunderHog

11-02-2009, 11:45 AM

Does anyone remember when I said: http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showpost.php?p=307484&postcount=338

Yeah, I'm just gonna reiterate that - only this time, I mean it. XD

Your Worst Nightmare

11-02-2009, 02:12 PM

@YWN: Hell, I'm more convinced than ever of that some sort of sick-walrus-art-gallery has fallen into your hands XD
Ah! Then just wait until next month, then you'll see the awesomest most awesome walrus pic ever. :P

Quick overview of currently submitted cards, based solely on first impressions, with no serious (or otherwise) ponderation over them whatsoever:

@evol_intentions: You're missing A LOT of apostrophes in your card's overall text, including the name. The art also seems blurred for some reason, and there's no reason for the card to be mythic rarity.

@ThunderHog: It's weird to see a creature whose intent is to use its sacrificing ability having a regeneration ability. The two have no synergy whatsoever. And it's not like Skeletons are the only creatures that deal with bones. You can easily change the creature type while keeping the same name and ability, minus the regeneration bit; all you need is find new fitting art. Oh, and while you're at it, try also to correct your card's wording with post-M10 terminology.

@Tekkactus, nothing to report at the moment.

@Cashew, where is that an Elephant? It has no trunk!

@Kamahl's Disciple, triggered abilities that look for opponents' actions and have an impact on game state such as a creature's size tend to require a "you may" clause, because of "forgettings." You can avoid plenty of discussions and arguments with that simple clause, which Cosi's Trickster so testifies.

@CoglineErro, why is it a Druid? And why does it seem kinda too good?

@p-chan, both instances of "Zubera" in the text box should be capitalized. And the first ability should be worded without the 'all' in it, ala Necromancer's Covenant. I find no other flaws at the moment.

@Umexx, nothing to report at the moment.

@kingez36@hotmail.co.uk, compare your card with Voracious Cobra, and realize that your card has the equivalent of 6 attack power when unblocked.

@Luthervamplord, it's weird to see the card's typeline under what's supposed to be its text box. Other than that, nothing to report at the moment.

@GG Crono, DEFINITELY in need of proper artwork. Other than that, nothing to report at the moment.

And this is it for today. In other news, no one dares attempt a card with three creature types? :P

ThunderHog

11-02-2009, 02:34 PM

Am I the only one who likes the art GG Crono has? XD

DrakSlime FTW!!!

kingez36@hotmail.co.uk

11-02-2009, 03:02 PM

Ywn, run that past me again, I don't get the whole 6 damage thing.

Kamahl's Disciple

11-02-2009, 04:18 PM

@Kamahl's Disciple, triggered abilities that look for opponents' actions and have an impact on game state such as a creature's size tend to require a "you may" clause, because of "forgettings." You can avoid plenty of discussions and arguments with that simple clause, which Cosi's Trickster so testifies.

Oh crap, I thought I put the "you may" clause into it, I really did, sorry for that, I will fix that right away.

Man, I need to pay attention more...

CoglineErro

11-02-2009, 04:22 PM

@p-chan: I'll look at it with that change. See how it feels. *edit* Or I'll change it to a less interesting version til I know exactly what i want.
@YWN: Druid's Call, Nut Collector, and Squirrel Wrangler. The idea is that it is a shrine built to squirrels by the druids. Hoping flavor tet would clear that up.

evol_intentions

11-02-2009, 04:32 PM

Ah! @evol_intentions: You're missing A LOT of apostrophes in your card's overall text.

Oh, so its my apostrophes now. well my girlfriend just dumped me for improper use of the colon

Kamahl's Disciple

11-02-2009, 05:29 PM

Feedback: -

@YWN: - I am hoping you don't run out of any Walrus ideas for next upcoming months, this running theme of yours is great.

@Evol: - ... As much as I would like green to have straight creature kill like this, as I remember, I think the only kind of creature kill green is allowed to have is during combat or if it has to do with fliers. So this is a no go.

@TH: - Solid entry, I don't see a problem with this one.

@Tekkactus: - This one is also a solid entry.

@Cashew: - ... Gah... The timmy inside me just wet himself in pleasure. That being the case, maybe you should replace his second ability with trample instead, just to make it a bit more fairer.

@Cogline: - The second ability can replace any squirrel token lost through direct or mass damage, this is rather unfair. I would suggest saying "Whenever a nontoken creature you control is dealt damage,", that way, it's fairer.

... Lower the mana cost too.

@p-chan: - I am in flavor country. :smokin:

This entry may not win, but it certainly has my Vorthos tingling with excitement. I love it.

@Umexx: - Nantuko Shade? Is that you?

@Kingez: - Interesting. Never really seen any good submissions that dealt with Poison counters before, and it's very deadly in combat too... maybe a bit too deadly... Might want to make it a 2/3, but that's my opinion.

@Luther: - Well, its not one-upping Tattermunge Maniac, I think this a pretty decent card, though it's nothing too exciting.

@GG Crono: - Uhh... what? Hmm... Well, its not overpowered, even if it might deceive some people at first glance. I never played Dragon Quest myself, so I wouldn't get the connection. It's not bad, it's doable but if it were me, I wouldn't run it.

@MTG: - I would go with the Model Citizen, because as it stands, the Dryad is too powerful.

p-chan

11-02-2009, 06:02 PM

Does anyone remember when I said: http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showpost.php?p=307484&postcount=338

Yeah, I'm just gonna reiterate that - only this time, I mean it. XD

*Rises his warhammer and clashes it with TH's battleaxe* Yeah man! :D

@p-chan: - I am in flavor country.:smokin:

This entry may not win, but it certainly has my Vorthos tingling with excitement. I love it.

You know what? Designing a five-colored fattie and carefully tweaking it is even funnier than winning the MCC ... well, not as funny, but almost. In any case, I recommend the experience to any card creator with a bit of guts :p

Ywn, run that past me again, I don't get the whole 6 damage thing.
YWN means that your creature can kill an opponent in just 4 swings, just like a power 6 normal creature.

GG Crono

11-02-2009, 06:21 PM

@KD: Note my usage of the term "Placeholder". The connection to Dragon Quest is nonexistent.

In any case, first and foremost I wanted to make it flavorful, but I'd like to think it's not completely unplayable. ;)

MTG59895

11-02-2009, 06:43 PM

@Kamahl's Disciple: Thank you for being frank. What do you think of Model Citizen in general? I also tried to modify Worldly Wanderer.

CoglineErro

11-02-2009, 06:44 PM

I think I may be changing this card too much. Trying to capture the spirit of the creature without making it bland and, well, bland.

Kamahl's Disciple

11-02-2009, 07:36 PM

@Kamahl's Disciple: Thank you for being frank. What do you think of Model Citizen in general? I also tried to modify Worldly Wanderer.

I think it's good, don't worry about it too much, I would definitely use it as an entry.

Cashew

11-03-2009, 12:22 AM

@Cashew: Great entry, but I doubt it will be your last, so ... and in any case, "Elephino" is more like the name of a clown ore something like that

@Cashew, where is that an Elephant? It has no trunk!

@Cashew: - ... Gah... The timmy inside me just wet himself in pleasure. That being the case, maybe you should replace his second ability with trample instead, just to make it a bit more fairer.

Q: What do you get when you cross an elephant with a rhinoceros?
A: Elephino. (say it right and it sounds like: "Hell if I know")

I can't decide if ya'll have never heard the joke before. It's a classic stupid kid joke. That I referenced in the flavor text. I thought about making it a Demon Elephant Rhino. Definitely not my real entry, the artwork is copyrighted to some Korean card game. The search for a ridiculous combination is on. Must find artwork that is on par with the "wtf-ness" of Mosstodon

MechanicalMind

11-03-2009, 01:42 AM

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2703&d=1257234029

here's my entry, at the moment. hope to come up with something better.

Umexx

11-03-2009, 02:32 AM

@Kamahl's Disciple: Sure is! :p Only mine's better :) I noticed that the newer shades usually have 2 creature types (what the creature was in life and the shade it becomes), so it was the perfect thing for this month's contest.

Cashew

11-03-2009, 03:35 AM

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2703&d=1257234029

here's my entry, at the moment. hope to come up with something better.

The Coalition Honor Guard and Meddle might give you some insight in how to properly word your card:

I'd probably word it like this:
If target spell or ability has only one target and that target is an Angel creature you control, change that spell or abilities target to Angelic Champion.

I'd simplify personally to disinclude ability though.

ALEX Ryugami

11-03-2009, 04:22 AM

Here is mine :D what do you think?

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/NantukoAwakener.jpg

KlassyReborn

11-03-2009, 04:34 AM

Alex, i like your card's synergy with momentary blink.

I don't have mine in card form yet but here's my idea:

Warlord Melesh - :6mana::r::w:
Legendary Creature - Human warrior [R]
Convoke
When ~ enters the battlefield, put X +1/+1 counters on him where X is the number of tapped creatures you control.

i tried balancing cost with ability, but i thought the higher it cost the more counters it could potenially have so i figured a cmc of 8 would balance it.

Luthervamplord

11-03-2009, 05:05 AM

@ Mechanical Mind: I might be wrong, but I believe the right way to word this is:

"If a spell or ability an opponent controls would target an Angel you control, that spell or ability targets ~ instead."

Nice idea too.

p-chan

11-03-2009, 06:20 AM

I've tweaked my submission a little, following YWN's advices, and added a new one. It's essentially a Berserk-like effect, but very restricted in target and cost. Of course, the reason for it's types and restrictions is that only Warriors and Soldiers are skilled enought in combat to perform this maneuver. What do you think about it's balance?

Also:

@Umexx: I don't see the needing of white there, black has also lots of flying creatures and even a couple of angels. Also, it's maybe a little overpowered compared to Nantuko Shade.

@ZeorMK2: I would rise it's cost o 4UB, I think it fits it better.

@Ryugami: A monogreen creature that gives haste to others? I think it's crying out for red in it's cost.

@CoglineErro: Trample for Squirrels? Hell, now THAT's new

ALEX Ryugami

11-03-2009, 08:38 AM

@p-chan: Green has haste as it's secondary (or tertiary, I forgot :P) so it's very rare to see a green creature has haste. (and that's why I make it costs :g::g::g:

MTG59895

11-03-2009, 09:39 AM

I downloaded a rarity symbol template from Magic Set Editor's website, but I don't know how to update the card making program with it. Can anyone help?

Cashew

11-03-2009, 09:40 AM

@p-chan: Green has haste as it's secondary (or tertiary, I forgot ) so it's very rare to see a green creature has haste. (and that's why I make it costs

Green is definitely the secondary color for haste. However, requiring more Green for it to work is silly. The more Green mana you give to something, the more definitively Green it should be. With a secondary ability of Green, you actually need less Green in the mana cost. See Giantbaiting, Reflex Sliver.

If I was to see a creature with :g::g::g: I'd expect to see very classic elements of green such as a large body, trample, regeneration. Not haste.

GG Crono

11-03-2009, 10:06 AM

@ZeorMK2: Like p-chan said, I would increase its cost a little. That said, I think it's a really neat card. :)

George G

11-03-2009, 11:15 AM

5) Your card must be balanced.
Do not expect to win if you create some off-the-wall insane creature that has every ability for 10 mana, is a 9/5, is named "Blinky, the Happy Clown" and has a rubber duck for art. The goal is to create a card that could seemingly be printed. From the flavor to the mana cost to the power level of the card - all parts are considered.

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/BlinkyTheHappyClown.jpg

Giggity

MechanicalMind

11-03-2009, 11:39 AM

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/BlinkyTheHappyClown.jpg

Giggity

at least a silver border XD

CoglineErro

11-03-2009, 11:50 AM

Tried adding Shrine to the type bar for flavor reasons, but its too busy and this isn't really a Kamigawian shrine. Still messing with it. One of these days I'll be able to leave the cage. Cogline says I can't til I get it just right. Send help.

-Maro

p-chan

11-03-2009, 04:27 PM

Green is definitely the secondary color for haste.

True, but only for creatures that HAVE haste, not that GIVE haste to others. The only examples of this are Concordant Crossroads, Touch of Vitae and Instill Energy, and they have all been designed a long time ago, when the color pie was still being cooked. Reflex Sliver is obviusly another exception, as slivers can't have any ability without sharing it with their comrades.

To design a monogreen creature that gives haste to others is like designing a black creature that gives first strike to others: possible, but weird

George G

11-03-2009, 04:47 PM

Drumroll into a Kessler breakdown about elder dragon legends in kamigawa block atmosphere....

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/AsmaditheBanished-1.jpg

KlassyReborn

11-03-2009, 05:36 PM

ok mine is up.

It has a huge cost but with a huge benefit if the convoke is used.

Also i wanted to do a horror, and a warrior, so i felt like this would fit the flavor of the card.

As for the colors, i wanted to do red, but i felt like green would've suited it better, afterall, the only two colors in magic to us convoke were green and white, and honestly, i didn't like how it would be if white was the secondary color. Green is solid because of it's beat face attitude and it's conjunction with black. Overall, it's a unique card with not a ridiculous ability, not as bad as Nemesis of Reason which i hate beyond all...reason. A Path, O-ring, or even unmake can get rid of him easily. Creature control is his weakness, which i think is a good balance to him.

Your thoughts?

JakeKessler

11-03-2009, 06:24 PM

Drumroll into a Kessler breakdown about elder dragon legends in kamigawa block atmosphere....

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/AsmaditheBanished-1.jpg

I'm cool with it. ^^ Vaevictis Asmadi got smaller and more aggressively costed and learned trample. And he became a Spirit. Cool beans.

I've been a little too busy to check out this month's contest until now. I hope I'll get a chance to throw an entry together soon.

MTG59895

11-03-2009, 06:30 PM

I downloaded a rarity symbol template from Magic Set Editor's website, but I don't know how to update the card making program with it. Can anyone help?

JakeKessler

11-03-2009, 08:45 PM

Attempt one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/MaaruGreatTeacher.png

MTG59895

11-03-2009, 09:10 PM

JakeKessler

11-03-2009, 10:08 PM

@JakeKessler: You hardly need me to tell you this, but your card is very original. What do you think of my Mindwhelm Monitor? I tried to be unique with that one, but it is hard for me to tell whether it is balanced or not.

I like it. Interesting take on gaining control of creatures. The text is kind of squished; maybe consider losing the reminder text for Wither? Rares with lots of text frequently forgo reminder text (Greater Gargadon, for example), and everybody here probably knows what Wither does.

Potential rules issue - As written, your first ability also applies to your own creatures' toughness becoming 0, so it's essentially broken with cards like Devoted Druid.

As for balance... It's pretty sick with cards like Infest.

KlassyReborn

11-03-2009, 11:48 PM

Potential rules issue - As written, your first ability also applies to your own creatures' toughness becoming 0, so it's essentially broken with cards like Devoted Druid.

I disagree, as stated by another ability, "Other creatures you control are 2/2 drones with no abilities"

Therefore, the druid wont be broken because it has no abilities. Although, i do have to say, this card could be broken through Arena.

ThunderHog

11-03-2009, 11:59 PM

To design a monogreen creature that gives haste to others is like designing a black creature that gives first strike to others: possible, but weird
I, personally, think green should have some aspects of Haste. However, I think it should be limited to smaller creatures and not bigger ones - and if a creature were to give haste to another creature then it should flavorfully have something to do with mutation and the ilk. IMO, ALEX, you're card isn't that bad at all. However, I'm with Cashew when he says that you should use less green mana. I'd say that a cost of :3mana::g: would suffice just fine.

JakeKessler

11-04-2009, 12:04 AM

I disagree, as stated by another ability, "Other creatures you control are 2/2 drones with no abilities"

Oh, right. Good call.

Therefore, the druid wont be broken because it has no abilities. Although, i do have to say, this card could be broken through Arena.

Could be an issue. Use Arena with the Monitor, gain control of target creature with power and toughness each 3 or less.

KlassyReborn

11-04-2009, 02:17 AM

Could be an issue. Use Arena with the Monitor, gain control of target creature with power and toughness each 3 or less.

don't fret about it, it's amazing synergy, i mean Serendib Sorcerer + Merfolk Thaumaturgist is pretty sick too, so just because a card is powerful because of it's syngery, doesn't mean it's overpowered IMO.

Also, since no one has commented on mine yet, i'll post my rough draft here:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/KlassyReborn/GhostlyWarlord.jpg

tell me what you think, i tried to balance power with cost, but i felt like the more i added to his cost the more it could be powerful, i felt like 8 would be reasonable for a rare.

Umexx

11-04-2009, 04:23 AM

Changed mine a bit. Hope you like it more.

Cashew

11-04-2009, 05:26 AM

I, personally, think green should have some aspects of Haste. However, I think it should be limited to smaller creatures and not bigger ones - and if a creature were to give haste to another creature then it should flavorfully have something to do with mutation and the ilk. IMO, ALEX, you're card isn't that bad at all. However, I'm with Cashew when he says that you should use less green mana. I'd say that a cost of would suffice just fine.

Again, the issue isn't whether or not Green has haste or gives haste. It clearly does even in a small aspect of the color.

The issue is that with a minor ability of a color you do not put a ton of colored symbols in the casting cost. You only put a few. The more :g: symbols you put into a creature the more it should epitomize the color Green and represent the color's core.

:g: - Green-Influence. Definitely Green, but not overwhelmed the color spectrum. Classic Card: Llanowar Elf
:g::g: - Green-Kin. Probably displays a classic aspect of Green such as elevated P/T, Regeneration, Trample, or Mana Acceleration. Classic Card: Craw Wurm
:g::g::g: - Green-Heavy. Definitely displays one or more classic aspect of Green. Classic Card: Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:g::g::g::g: - Green-Dominance. Epitomizes the color Green. Classic Card: Force of Nature
:g::g::g::g::g: - Green-Incarnate. Takes the color Green and smashes it onto your face. Classic Card: Deus of Calamity

ALEX Ryugami

11-04-2009, 05:44 AM

@All: So, for abilities that is less common seen on a color don't have to put more colored mana symbols? (as opposite of Nantuko Awakener)

By the way, I have another ideas, so what do you think?

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/ZargosthePyromaniac.jpg

_b4g3r_

11-04-2009, 06:47 AM

So my card is up, any helpful suggestions?

KlassyReborn

11-04-2009, 07:09 AM

So my card is up, any helpful suggestions?

i don't know why but i feel like there should be lifelink in there somewhere

_b4g3r_

11-04-2009, 07:24 AM

i don't know why but i feel like there should be lifelink in there somewhere

wouldn't flying, haste and lifelink be over the top?
Maybe lifelink for haste, hmmmm....

MTG59895

11-04-2009, 08:03 AM

@KlassyReborn: You might consider giving it trample, just so it can't be chump-blocked after all the effort put into playing it (tapped creatures and mana). The text on your card looks like it is all in bold, and I don't think YWN will be taken with it. I guess the only other thing to keep in mind is how many creatures you can produce to play your creature by the desired turn; that will determined its balance.

@ALEX Ryugami: I recommend blaze counters, as those have already been created by Wizards of the Coast, and you wouldn't want to be redundant. Fuse counters also work for the same reason.

@Umexx: Unfortunately, "Chimera" is already a creature type. You'll have to change it to Chimera and add another creature type. You may consider changing its name a bit too, so that you can justify using another creature type, like Mutant, Ally, Avatar, or Elder.

@_b4g3r_: The only thing I would say is to make the card nonlegendary, as all the other "Avatar of's" are nonlegendary.

GG Crono

11-04-2009, 10:46 AM

Very interesting card you made there, Jake. :)

Your Worst Nightmare

11-04-2009, 12:02 PM

Ywn, run that past me again, I don't get the whole 6 damage thing.
I mean that your card's third ability allows it to kill a player in four swings. Which, for a card with that mana cost and already with those other two abilities, it's kinda too good.

@YWN: Druid's Call, Nut Collector, and Squirrel Wrangler. The idea is that it is a shrine built to squirrels by the druids. Hoping flavor tet would clear that up.
Nevermind the flavor text, what makes your card, mechanically, a Druid? In what way does it relate to the Druid tribe? What compelling reason is there to play the card in a Druid tribal deck, for example? That is what I mean. :)

Q: What do you get when you cross an elephant with a rhinoceros?
A: Elephino. (say it right and it sounds like: "Hell if I know")
Given my native language isn't english, english-only wordplays like that, especially when in written form, will kinda need explaining beforehand next time, if you don't mind. :) So yeah, your card does make more sense now, but it still doesn't have a trunk for it to be an elephant. :teach:

In other news, I'm starting to see some very nice submissions here. Will post comments when I have more time. :)

George G

11-04-2009, 12:07 PM

"Up to two target creatures you control gain intimidate." What, until end of turn? Forever? As long as the card is on the battlefield? If it's supposed to be permanently, why doesn't it have some way of ensuring I remember it, like say counters or something? And where's the artist credit? Well, at least I enjoyed the flavor of FEARmonger and making a creature 'lose all colors'. I snickered even if it wasn't an intended pun.

There's also some memory issues about having to remember exactly what his creature types are since the effect is permanent, and it's weird that this isn't a Shapeshifter, or at least a Wizard which is the class most associated with illusory tricks, not really Druids.

@Jake: Last month YWN mentioned a couple times about the need to "remember" what a card has through counters, etc...

So I would change your abilities to "beginning of next end step" or use counters or ask YWN, I like the verbal judge version of the contest.

JakeKessler

11-04-2009, 12:14 PM

@Jake: Last month YWN mentioned a couple times about the need to "remember" what a card has through counters, etc...

So I would change your abilities to "beginning of next end step" or use counters or ask YWN, I like the verbal judge version of the contest.

I thought about each of these, but each has their own issues. You want an extra kind of counter on a 'walker, let alone two unique counters if it has both abilities, plus all its loyalty counters?

UEOT isn't really appropriate because the flavor is teaching. The 'walkers shouldn't forget what they learn after they do it once.

Ultimately, you have a good point (or YWN had a good point) in a general sense about cards... but I don't think it's that hard to remember that a planeswalker can (+1: Draw a card) or (-5: Take an extra turn). It's certainly not enough of an issue to use erroneous counters or make them 'forgot' at EOT.

What do you think, YWN?

MTG59895

11-04-2009, 12:38 PM

@JakeKessler: I don't think that Arena would work with Mindwhelm Monitor because it only gains control of a creature when its toughness is 0 or less, not when it takes lethal damage.

Also: I downloaded a rarity symbol template from Magic Set Editor's website, but I don't know how to update the card making program with it. Can anyone help?

George G

11-04-2009, 01:37 PM

Ok, random feedback....

@Evol: should be Nature's, and creature's

@TH: Needs a period after "anytime you could play a sorcery"

@Tekk: can't wait to see art, like it, but so hard to find good art for a pre-existing idea, good luck!

@Cashew: I know it's not the real submission, looks like both to me(horn INSTEAD of trunk!) it would have worked if non copyrighted... cost seemed low to me, but I wasn't going to say it....why wasn't it 6? doesn't matter...

@Kamahl: This applies to a lot of submissions, but I think the "spirit" of this theme is to have 2 different "creature" types, not one with a job...such as Evol's elf assassin, and your elf warrior. I don't think it's what YWN had in mind, but he hasn't said otherwise, so I'm merely speculating. As is....it feels like an Ooze.

@Cogline: This isn't druid just because they made it. you wouldn't make all artifacts be Urza or artificer, equipment does this a little with cloak and dagger and stuff, but this isn't like that.

@Mechanical mind: again, it's a human with a job, not two different types...also it feels off, if I target a flying angel with a lightning bolt, how does this protect my angel? does it jump really high? i don't know

@Pchan: Noun is a little over the top, you don't even have to have zubera, just 5 mana, and sac some tokens. The Riposte is also what I've been saying too, it's two jobs with no type. I guess this is fine and I should stop talking about it unless it's brought up as an issue, but doesn't feel on theme.

@Umexx: I wanted to make a Chimera too, but if wizards made one it's type would be Chimera or something else that's one word, they combine, see Cromat

@Kingez: make it a 2/3 and it's perfect.

@Luthervamp: like it, type with a job also, but hey.

@GG Crono: I assume "it" means your ooze and not the creature, but clarify PLEASE!, I don't want another 10 page "question of when" debate. See Phytohydra

@MTG59895: Art from "I Robot" might get you DQ'd

@ZeroMk2: EACH end step is excessive I think, thats 2 cards a turn when you only even draw one.....thats assuming you have them, other wise it's 16 damage for 5 mana in one inning.

@ Alex: it's been said, change the cost. The pyromancer is loose, why can't the counters just go on himself? If he dies and another one comes out, it would get the counters, he's legendary, it's not right. If another one doesn't come out then i'm keeping track of useless counters on my creatures forever.

@Klassy: will lose points for render, type with a job, Convoke? Block keyword for one, on B/R for another.

@Streets: A Nightmare for half the cost...WITH an extra ability.

@ Jake: Aren't 97% of wizards human anyway? Other than that....What planeswalker would you have out that you would rather take a turn rather than use they're big ability? At the same cost as Time warp....at least make it the cost of Time WALK...then it's fun like ancestral vision and lotus bloom.

@b4g3r: Don't make this legendary, the other ones aren't. Other than that, it's great.

JakeKessler

11-04-2009, 02:15 PM

@JakeKessler: I don't think that Arena would work with Mindwhelm Monitor because it only gains control of a creature when its toughness is 0 or less, not when it takes lethal damage.

This is a little hard to "see", since wither creatures deal damage in the form of -1/-1 counters. Somebody with more rules savvy than me - if a creature is dealt damage that would be lethal anyway, but the source happens to have wither, does the creature's toughness change before it dies?

Related: If I deal 2 wither damage to something and then remove both of the counters, does it still have 2 damage on it?

@ Jake: Aren't 97% of wizards human anyway? Other than that....What planeswalker would you have out that you would rather take a turn rather than use they're big ability?

Nonhuman Wizards (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&subtype=+[%22Wizard%22]+![%22Human%22]) - 185
Human Wizards (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&subtype=+[%22Wizard%22]+[%22Human%22]) - 239

So roughly 56% of all Wizards are humans. That's barely half. Not counting changelings.

As for what planeswalker would rather have a Time Warp than its ultimate... Jace Beleren would much rather time walk after one power-up than mill somebody after four, outside of a dedicated mill deck. In fact, more than a few planeswalkers can be at 5 loyalty after a single power-up, or even the turn they drop, and some of them have pretty narrow, expensive, or underwhelming ultimates. (Looking at you, Elspeth.)

Sucros

11-04-2009, 02:18 PM

My card's up. Not positive it works within the rules as written, any advice?

JakeKessler

11-04-2009, 02:28 PM

@Sucros: I think it works within the rules as written. I think it's broken since it makes them not creatures anymore. Consider that at the very least, this guy is unblockable.

KlassyReborn

11-04-2009, 02:36 PM

@Klassy: will lose points for render, type with a job, Convoke? Block keyword for one, on B/R for another.

you're using broken sentences so i don't fully understand what you're saying. And he's B/G, i splashed the green so it'll fit convoke and the fact that he's a horror, unless it would fit better as a B/W because White has had both horrors and convoke. I honestly don't see what's wrong with using a block keyword. So tell me why you think this way so i can better understand your view point please. Thank you.

[And I'm not dismissing your criticism completely, i'm just not understanding what you're saying]

wouldn't flying, haste and lifelink be over the top?
Maybe lifelink for haste, hmmmm....

Maybe not in teh creature itself, but have it say "Other bat and vampire creatures you control get +1/+1 and lifelink."

JakeKessler

11-04-2009, 03:31 PM

@Klassy: I think what he's saying is that convoke is a specifically green-white ability. Not that it can go on any green or white card, but that it can't go on colorless, black, red or blue cards. This is because it was the Selesnya guild ability, so it seems out of place on cards that wouldn't have been in Selesnya.

As for the "type with a job" argument... the rules just say the card has to have two creature types. Not two races, two creature types. The rules don't even say you need to make the creature types mechanically relevant to the card's abilities, although Tribal cards (noncreature cards with creature types) would obviously need a reason to be Tribal.

I can't speak for YWN here, but I don't really see race-class creatures as being in violation of the "spirit of the contest", and they're certainly allowed within the rules.

Flyingtacos

11-04-2009, 03:55 PM

Hoping for some feedback on my cards (its my first submission). My stuff is on page two.

p-chan

11-04-2009, 04:41 PM

I think the "spirit" of this theme is to have 2 different "creature" types, not one with a job
I disagree. I think that the spirit of this theme is to have 2 different creature types, and that there is a reason for those types to be there. I mean, a 2/2 first striker could be a Human Knight, or a Goblin Warrior, or even a Giant Nomad, or whatever indeed. There must be a reason for your card to be of those types, and for wich it can't be of other types.

@Umexx: Bad for you that Wizards already has the type "Chimera". But hey, look it this way: if it's a chimera it can't be target of Goatnapper XD

@George: Find other dragon art, that seems too "digital" for a magic card.

@Streetz: That is a HUGE creature, and huge creatures doesn't fit well with sacrificing abilities. How about other type of cost for the second ability, such as discarding a card, or sacrificing an island?

@Jake: Your card seems part of a five color cycle of cards. Just think about it, a 'walkers master of each color ... hell, I love the idea! Would you let me borrow it to make a card like yours, but from other color? I'm talking seriously :p

@Sucros: In any case, you may say: "Other creatures become enchantments in addition to their other types.". I guess, at least.

@Flyingtacos: I would go with Rashina. It's for sure a great descendant of Lieutenant Kirtar or Major Teroh

JakeKessler

11-04-2009, 04:46 PM

lol p-chan, go for it. ^^

CoglineErro

11-04-2009, 04:50 PM

@Jake: Yours is the most original, but memory issues are something I always fear and yours reeks of it.
And now, I'll try something completely different. About to add a second crazier idea!

JakeKessler

11-04-2009, 05:16 PM

I feel like Planeswalkers have such specified identities - for one thing they're all legendary (so to speak) - that even if you have more than one 'walker in play, it's pretty easy to remember which one knows how to Time Walk.

p-chan

11-04-2009, 05:18 PM

Hah! Here it is! (I'm inspired this month :D)
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/9112/jheromelderteacher.png (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/jheromelderteacher.png/)
What do you think, Jake? The abilities are quite verbose, so I decided to remove the flavour text.

Shall anyone try to make another one? White, black, red anyone? XD

EDIT: Of course, it should be rare or mythic ... just a mistake XP

JakeKessler

11-04-2009, 05:20 PM

To further granulate my point...

... I can see how memory issues might be a problem if the abilities are complicated, but "+1: Draw a card" and "-5: Time Walk" are pretty simple easy to grok.

KlassyReborn

11-04-2009, 05:54 PM

Umexx

11-04-2009, 06:19 PM

Changed again... :paranoid:

Flyingtacos

11-04-2009, 07:48 PM

@p-chan - thanks for the feedback.
If anyone else has suggestions, please let me know.

Sucros

11-05-2009, 01:21 AM

@Sucros: I think it works within the rules as written. I think it's broken since it makes them not creatures anymore. Consider that at the very least, this guy is unblockable.

I don't think the principle of a creature that effectively perma-wraths the board, but can be answered like any other creature is inherently broken. Upon reflection, I do believe you're right that this card is severly overpowered, however. I do think the thing needs to be much more fragile and/or beefed up in cost.
The cards that are most similar that come to mind are fortune thief and platinum angel. Both can obliterate a creature-based win condition unless removed. Platinum angel has the advantage of a tough body, and ability to cut off all win conditions. Fortune thief is very weak, but has instant speed going for him. My card's best advantage over those two is that it has effective unblockability, and that it has the lowest mana cost.

I'm curious if anyone thinks my card could be more balanced at 5 or 6 mana for a 2/1 with the same ability. I'm willing to start over from scratch, but I'm rather enamored with a reversible wrath on a weak stick.

JakeKessler

11-05-2009, 01:30 AM

I like it at 2/1, just because then it really wants Lumithread Field. ^^ I think :5mana::w: for a 2/4 with this ability might be appropriate, or :2mana::w::w: for a 2/1.

Also: Consider that this guy's not amazing in multiples.

Sucros

11-05-2009, 01:31 AM

He was initially legendary, but then I realized there was no point ;) I think I'll go with the low toughness. There's something fun about killing a rare with a shock.

@Flyingtacos: I'd personally stick with wither on the bug. Deathtouch is rarely relevant on fatties. Also, the X on the third card serves no purpose, so there's no reason to pick any value other than zero. It'd be better off as "RRR:"

ZeroMk2

11-05-2009, 02:14 AM

Well, at this point I'm sure several people have looked at my card. Thanks to all who have. Anyhow there are things that I must address and here they are:

p-chan:
@ZeroMK2: I would rise it's cost o 4UB, I think it fits it better.

GG Crono:
@ZeroMK2: Like p-chan said, I would increase its cost a little. That said, I think it's a really neat card.

----Thanks for the feedback. I will consider modifying the card a bit by tinkering with the cost. I am unsure how it will turn out, but just to clarify my initial mana cost of 3UB was due to the fact that it's first ability affects both players equally, and that Nyixa is Legendary. However it turns out thanks for taking the time to evaluate the card.

And also:

George G:
@ZeroMk2: EACH end step is excessive I think, thats 2 cards a turn when you only even draw one.....thats assuming you have them, other wise it's 16 damage for 5 mana in one inning.

---- Interesting viewpoint, I will consider re-evaluating the first ability, but there are a few things that I must point out. 1) Nyixa, the Thoughteater is Legendary. 2) It's first ability affects BOTH players. 3)There is a clause on the last ability that will most likely keep it from ever really attacking, due to the fact that it's controller MUST draw a card long before combat. 4) In certain situations it has the potential to kill it's controller. In a way it punishes you for playing it. Kind of in a Lord of the Pit "Feed me or I hurt you too." way. I fully understand what you are getting at. But like most larger creatures in M:TG its primary use is as a finisher. Perhaps tinkering with the P/T of the card is in order and I shall look into it. However, I take the criticism as it is. And thanks for at least taking the time to evaluate my submission.

MechanicalMind

11-05-2009, 03:10 AM

changed my card. I think i'll go with another UN-card.

I'm divided...which one to choose?

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2711&stc=1&d=1257412236 http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2712&stc=1&d=1257412644

ALEX Ryugami

11-05-2009, 07:00 AM

@ALEX Ryugami: I recommend blaze counters, as those have already been created by Wizards of the Coast, and you wouldn't want to be redundant. Fuse counters also work for the same reason.

Okay, I've change it :D

@ Alex: it's been said, change the cost. The pyromancer is loose, why can't the counters just go on himself? If he dies and another one comes out, it would get the counters, he's legendary, it's not right. If another one doesn't come out then i'm keeping track of useless counters on my creatures forever.

Thinking about flavor. Actually, Zargos becomes stronger for each fire around him, and if the counters just go on himself, it's same as putting a +1/+1 counter to himself :P

I've changed Zargos and get rid of the Awakener, what do you think?

MTG59895

11-05-2009, 07:55 AM

Does anyone know of a rarity symbol template that I can use for Magic Deck Editor 3.8? The only template I know of is for 3.6. I can't make my symbols any better than they currently are.

Flyingtacos

11-05-2009, 11:40 AM

@sucrose: if x = 0, then the ability doesn't work because you target 0 creatures or players. If its one you deal six to one target, if its two it deals 3 to 2 targets and so on.
(oops ur right, i forgot to change the wording)

p-chan

11-05-2009, 05:07 PM

Does anyone know of a rarity symbol template that I can use for Magic Deck Editor 3.8? The only template I know of is for 3.6. I can't make my symbols any better than they currently are.

Here's a collection of symbols I've been collecting along some time. There are symbols templates and some gif images that I use to add to my cards using photoshop. I hope it helps you.

MTG59895

11-05-2009, 08:20 PM

@p-chan: Thank you so much! I was worried that I would be stuck with the symbol I made that looks like a stoplight.
Both of your entry ideas look solid. The only idea that I would throw out there is to make Riposte dual-mana costed, so that the typical mono-white soldier deck can use it effectively. Maybe my idea is bad, but I just thought I'd run it by you.

@GG Crono: I guess that you can find your own art, but I thought this piece might be nice for Festering Zilant: http://schur.deviantart.com/art/Typical-dragon-115519270

Tekkactus

11-05-2009, 09:17 PM

KlassyReborn

11-05-2009, 11:11 PM

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/KlassyReborn/GhostlyWarlord.jpg

changed it up a tad, made it G/W to fit the convoke flavor, and instead of horror, i made it spirit to make it more white friendly. Thoughts?

FuDaWg45

11-05-2009, 11:33 PM

@FlyingTacos: Rashina is by far the best of the three you submitted. The first one has no business being hybrid, and the third just doesn't catch my interest like Rashina does.

Sucros

11-06-2009, 12:32 AM

@Klassy I like it better in the new colours. However, the art doesn't exactly cry out green-white to me.

KlassyReborn

11-06-2009, 01:26 AM

@Klassy I like it better in the new colours. However, the art doesn't exactly cry out green-white to me.

you're right...i'll begin looking for new art

p-chan

11-06-2009, 04:29 AM

@p-chan: ... is to make Riposte dual-mana costed, so that the typical mono-white soldier deck can use it effectively.
Woh, as a white wheenie player I would love to do that, but it would be impossible. Mono-white can't have double strike and trample when attacking, and mono-red can't have raw damage prevention for their own :P

@Tekkactus: I like your card much more now, but if it grows any time he deals or is dealt any kind of damage, why put the counter at the end of combat? If it is dealt damage after the combat phase, when do you put the counter, at the end of your opponent combat phase? It's weird ...

@Klassy: Hell, yeah, change the art XD

@ZeroMK2: Much better now, much better

CoglineErro

11-06-2009, 07:43 AM

@MTG59895: Mindwhelm Drone is gonna be your best bet here. Model Citizen is a lesser card, imo.

ALEX Ryugami

11-06-2009, 07:43 AM

Changed my card a bit. Just as elegant, just a small boost in power.

Also, I'm disappointed with how many of you are making Human [CLASS] creatures. That's not within the spirit of the prompt at all, and frankly couldn't be more dull. Get creative, people!

Well, that's just because I found the art for Zargos was cool, so I made a card around it. :D But that doesn't mean I'll stick to Zargos, only if I could make a better card.

Tekkactus

11-06-2009, 07:44 AM

@Tekkactus: I like your card much more now, but if it grows any time he deals or is dealt any kind of damage, why put the counter at the end of combat? If it is dealt damage after the combat phase, when do you put the counter, at the end of your opponent combat phase? It's weird ...

Good point. It's one of those times that "gotta get the formatting right" beat out common sense. Fixed it.

KlassyReborn

11-06-2009, 07:45 AM

i changed the art, and i must say i think it captures the "spirit" of the card, no pun intended really, but the brightness and new colors just make it more appealing to me for some reason rather than B/G. Thanks everyone, keep the feed back coming. Oh and to see the new art just scroll up :-P

MTG59895

11-06-2009, 07:47 AM

@Tekkactus: You know, I was thinking about making my Model Citizen a Construct Citizen, but the art I currently have looks...a bit too human. Maybe it would work, but I'm not sure if YWN would agree. If you come across any art that might fit better for a Model Citizen (Construct Citizen), please give me a link to it. I had difficulty finding anything closer to a peaceful robotic human or humanoid robot.

p-chan

11-06-2009, 08:11 AM

@Klassy: Er ... ur ... a CHEROKEE as art for a MAGIC CARD??????:eek: Now THAT's new ... and undesireable if you ask me

KlassyReborn

11-06-2009, 08:42 AM

@Klassy: Er ... ur ... a CHEROKEE as art for a MAGIC CARD??????:eek: Now THAT's new ... and undesireable if you ask me

not just a cherokee, a cherokee spirit. ;) But i can understand your concerns.

CoglineErro

11-06-2009, 09:57 AM

I think a Native American set would be pretty sweet. But the name doesn't really match the art now...

KlassyReborn

11-06-2009, 10:18 AM

I think a Native American set would be pretty sweet. But the name doesn't really match the art now...

hmmmm..give me a few minutes lol

should i go with a generic name like Spirit Warlord? or maybe something with flair like Restless Warlord?

CoglineErro

11-06-2009, 10:36 AM

Is the word warlord Native Americany? Never heard those together. Maybe chief or nantan?

KlassyReborn

11-06-2009, 11:00 AM

Is the word warlord Native Americany? Never heard those together. Maybe chief or nantan?

Spectral Chiefton?

CoglineErro

11-06-2009, 11:06 AM

That sounds much better for the art. I approve if you spell it Chieftain.

KlassyReborn

11-06-2009, 11:18 AM

That sounds much better for the art. I approve if you spell it Chieftain.

...i almost didn't pass high school because of english...lol

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/KlassyReborn/Spectralchieftain.jpg

ok?

thomasdm

11-06-2009, 11:27 AM

Am I wrong, or would Master Teacher allow a planeswalker to put infinite counters on itself, and for you to draw infinite cards?

KlassyReborn

11-06-2009, 11:30 AM

CoglineErro

11-06-2009, 11:50 AM

@Klassy: i like it. And the flavor feels stronger with it being a chieftain rather than a warlord.

JakeKessler

11-06-2009, 02:13 PM

Am I wrong, or would Master Teacher allow a planeswalker to put infinite counters on itself, and for you to draw infinite cards?

wrong. It should be more clear but what it's saying is that it gains the new abiity:

+1: draw a card

and like every other ability only one ability may be played a turn only as a sorcery.

Klassy is correct. The rules for planeswalkers state that any activated abilities of a planeswalker may only be activated at sorcery speed and only one (per planeswalker) may be activated in a turn.

@ Holy5: The Vodalians (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[vodalian]||type=+[vodalian]||subtype=+[vodalian]||text=+[vodalian]) were Merfolk. The octopus people are Cephalids (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[cephalid]||type=+[cephalid]||subtype=+[cephalid]||text=+[cephalid]), and they have the Cephalid creature type.

CoglineErro

11-06-2009, 02:19 PM

Up to three ideas now...

FuDaWg45

11-06-2009, 03:12 PM

@ Holy5: The Vodalians (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[vodalian]||type=+[vodalian]||subtype=+[vodalian]||text=+[vodalian]) were Merfolk. The octopus people are Cephalids (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[cephalid]||type=+[cephalid]||subtype=+[cephalid]||text=+[cephalid]), and they have the Cephalid creature type.

That is true.

Also, bushido is not a blue mechanic - it has been on exactly 1 blue card, and that card is in an Un set. So no go there.

The second ability is also a pump ability - something blue never does. If I was designing this card, I would probably make it white.

Plural of octopus is octopuses. Octopi is also acceptable.

Sucros

11-06-2009, 04:10 PM

Klassy is correct. The rules for planeswalkers state that any activated abilities of a planeswalker may only be activated at sorcery speed and only one (per planeswalker) may be activated in a turn.

This is entirely true, but that might be a common mistake. I'd consider a reminder text (Permanants may only activate one loyalty ability per turn) It's perfectly fine without it, but just a thought.

JakeKessler

11-06-2009, 04:23 PM

This is entirely true, but that might be a common mistake. I'd consider a reminder text (Permanants may only activate one loyalty ability per turn) It's perfectly fine without it, but just a thought.

Activate abilities of planeswalkers only any time you could cast a sorcery. Only one activated ability of a planeswalker may be activated per turn. would be more correct. (See, Permanants may only activate one loyalty ability per turn isn't quite right because if a planeswalker permanent somehow loses the planeswalker supertype, it can then "go infinite". Fun stuff.)

It's a lot of text though, and the card is already framed pretty tightly.

The thing about reminder text is that it spells out things players should already know. Rares routinely omit reminder text if text box space needs to be conserved. It's assumed that players casting Greater Gargadon already know what "Suspend 10-:r:" means. For that matter, it's assumed that players casting Chandra Nalaar already know how planeswalker abilities work. After all, planeswalkers don't have any reminder text whatsoever.

KlassyReborn

11-06-2009, 07:18 PM

@Thomasdm - Would you rather have your card say OTHER cat/soldier creatures you control? or would you also prefer him to get +1/+1 first strike and can block an additional creature?

Le_Mirage

11-06-2009, 08:13 PM

Mine:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/Le_Mirage/Humanization2.jpg

...as written in the submission, the tribal choice is not perfect...but it slides somewhere between the game and the real world, considering that, after all, all the players of magic are human (obvious) and wizards (as player of magic, obvious again) .

JakeKessler

11-06-2009, 08:36 PM

female room mate

giggety giggety

CoglineErro

11-06-2009, 10:49 PM

I'm loving this design challenge. Made some more. Will post them here so my submission post isn't so crowded.
Estabar Oaktree
3GG
Legendary Creature- Squirrel Druid
Squirrels you control gain +1/+1.
XX, T: Put X 1/1 green squirrel tokens into play.
"The first sentient squirrel learned to call upon his brethren."

Draw of the Earth
2RG
Tribal Enchantment- Shaman Druid
Forests and green permanents you control gain "T: Add G to your mana pool."
Mountains and red permanents you control gain "Sacrifice this permanent: Add RR to your mana pool."
"Nature's fury and nature's calm are two sides of the same coin."

Druid Elemental
GG
Creature- Druid Elemental
~'s power is equal to the total power of lands you control and it's toughness is equal to the total toughness of lands you control.
*/*
"He took one with nature to the extreme."

Censor Being
3BB
Creature- Nightmare Horror
Intimidate
Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, search that player's library for a card and exile it. Then shuffle that player's library.
Whenever ~ leaves the battlefield, shuffle all cards exiled with ~ into their owner's library.
3/3

Eye of the Greenskin God
4
Tribal Artifact- Dragon Goblin
R: target creature gains +1/+0 until end of turn.
Sacrifice a creature: ~ deals damage to target creature equal to the sacrificed creature's toughness.

xaer0knight

11-07-2009, 12:27 AM

I think a Native American set would be pretty sweet. But the name doesn't really match the art now...

Hehe... My room mate and I are both native american. I'm 1/4 Lakota and she is 1/4 Eastern Band Cherokee.

here is a few:
One with Fire
One with Passion
Chief of Inspiration
One with Eagle Heart
Wrath of the Thunder Gods

as a joke.... He of many tokens :-P

ALEX Ryugami

11-07-2009, 12:28 AM

I've edited my submission again, what do you think?

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/ChomperMonstrosity.jpg

JakeKessler

11-07-2009, 02:06 AM

I've edited my submission again, what do you think?

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/ChomperMonstrosity.jpg

1. Should be whenever rather than when, since it seems like something that would happen more than once. See Thraximundar.

2. Flavor text seems off. If it's eating itself, shouldn't I see it shrinking?

3. Way overpowered. I get to kill something of my choice every time it attacks, and I get (possible two) counters to boot? For five mana? Yeesh.

ALEX Ryugami

11-07-2009, 03:07 AM

KlassyReborn

11-07-2009, 03:30 AM

@Jake: Well, thanks for the suggestions, but I still can't find a way to fix the "eating ability," I don't want it can eat either opponents' creatures or mine if the only player that controlling creatures is me (that could including itself) but I don't want to destroy at random or sacrifice effect, since it's weird if it can eat Darkstell Colossus though

maybe instead of whenever it attacks, put it at the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice a creature you control, and put a +1/+1 counter on ~, if a human was sacrificed this way, put two +1/+! counters on ~ instead. that way when you run out of food, it eats itself, sticking with the flavor ;)

ALEX Ryugami

11-07-2009, 03:33 AM

MechanicalMind

11-07-2009, 07:35 AM

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2712&stc=1&d=1257412644

i'm going with the RG one. What do you think?

Le_Mirage

11-07-2009, 10:01 AM

@Jake: Well, thanks for the suggestions, but I still can't find a way to fix the "eating ability," I want it can eat either opponents' creatures or mine if the only player that controlling creatures is me (that could including itself) but I don't want to destroy at random or sacrifice effect, since it's weird if it can eat Darkstell Colossus though

I think it's just fine this way, infact. Maybe you can just rise it's mana cost or lower it's thoughenss or power. After all, it is suppose to grow bigger easily if there are creatures to destroy (even yours).

Have the destroy/sacrifice as an upkeep cost would make it less original.

i'm going with the RG one. What do you think?

Good call. It's more interesting.

@xaer0knight: ^ - ^...!!

@Sucros: ...i like it a lot.

xaer0knight

11-07-2009, 10:54 AM

@KlassyReborn: Oops, I just mistyped my last post, it should be "I want it can eat either opponents' creatures or mine if the only player that controlling creatures is me (that could including itself)"

I'll edit the post

i think this would give it just a little more balance and not too over powered. He eats your opponents creatures for Lunch!

Deathtouch
If a creature damaged by THIS is put in the graveyard, put a +1/+1 conter on THIS.
If it was a Human, put a +2/+2 counter on THIS instead.

(you could also add, Creature damaged by THIS, can't be regenerated.)

xaer0knight

11-07-2009, 11:16 AM

That is true.

Also, bushido is not a blue mechanic - it has been on exactly 1 blue card, and that card is in an Un set. So no go there.

The second ability is also a pump ability - something blue never does. If I was designing this card, I would probably make it white.

Plural of octopus is octopuses. Octopi is also acceptable.

i think its a fun card. maybe for a Blue Samurai, Flanking would be acceptable. The pump up ability, there isn't much for blue. now something like TAP target creature gains Flanking or Sacrfice THIS all creatures you control gain Flanking. The only Blue pump up cards i can think of are Unstable Mutation, Ghostly Wings, Essence Flare, and Infiltrator's Magemark (those are just Auras of the top of me head).

JakeKessler

11-07-2009, 11:17 AM

Flanking is kind of not blue either. I think there's like one blue creature with flanking.

xaer0knight

11-07-2009, 11:24 AM

Flanking is kind of not blue either. I think there's like one blue creature with flanking.

but is that an Un-card? hows about Phasing then :-P

Le_Mirage

11-07-2009, 12:13 PM

Still, i think the point is that if you want to make a set based massively upon samurai combat to all colors, then you have to accomodate the martial abilities to all of them to a reasonable degree.
That means, for example, that if blue creatures are not going to have flying (not so samurai), another suitable set of martial abilities would be called for, even if, normally, blue would not have them.

Personally, i would leave bushido to all color since it's "the" samurai ability. Even some limited pumping ability would not be that bad, since the main martial colors were still going to have the better of them.

MTG59895

11-07-2009, 01:24 PM

I am considering upgrading Model Citizen to the following. Is the card now overpowered?

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2720&stc=1&d=1257621734

JakeKessler

11-07-2009, 01:29 PM

Axe the flavor text and find better art. Also consider modeling the ability off of Sakashima the Impostor.

Your Worst Nightmare

11-07-2009, 02:20 PM

I thought about each of these, but each has their own issues. You want an extra kind of counter on a 'walker, let alone two unique counters if it has both abilities, plus all its loyalty counters?

UEOT isn't really appropriate because the flavor is teaching. The 'walkers shouldn't forget what they learn after they do it once.

Ultimately, you have a good point (or YWN had a good point) in a general sense about cards... but I don't think it's that hard to remember that a planeswalker can (+1: Draw a card) or (-5: Take an extra turn). It's certainly not enough of an issue to use erroneous counters or make them 'forgot' at EOT.

What do you think, YWN?
If your card's flavor is that it teaches a new ability to the planeswalker, why is it that when the planeswalker goes away and then you call him back, he already forgot the ability? For the ability to be perfectly flavorful, it'd need to read "Inscribe with a pen or permanent marker "+1: Draw a card" on target planeswalker you control." :P So since it won't be completely flavorful anyway, you should instead make the card give the ability automatically to your planeswalkers as long as it's on the battlefield. "I can show you how it's done, and I'll help you do it so long as I'm around, but I warn you it takes decades' worth of training to do it by yourself, young grasshopper, do I doubt you'll be able to do it by yourself when I'm gone"-kind of deal maybe?

But that's not really what most bugs me about your card, but rather the phrase "target planeswalker you control." Wizards are always coming up with creative ways to deal with planeswalker cards that don't involve the phrase "Destroy target planeswalker" because that's simply not flavorful. A planeswalker card represents not the planeswalker but the contract you temporarily have with that planeswalker, because one can't kill planeswalkers just like that. So you can see that not even the suggestion I gave you is admitable. And if all that for "Destroy target planeswalker", you can imagine the fret that "Target planeswalker you control" would ensue. "So you control planeswalkers now? And you can teach them abilities too, heh? What, what they have isn't good enough for you? Snicker!"

It's pretty much a 'doomed if you do, doomed if you don't' situation. And yes memory issues are important, as planeswalkers can be killed and brought back to the field plenty of times during the course of a game, and having to remember "Did I already teach this ability to this incarnation of Jace?" can get tricky, despite being a simple ability. And now I've told you what I think, where you go from here is up to you.

As for the "type with a job" argument... the rules just say the card has to have two creature types. Not two races, two creature types. The rules don't even say you need to make the creature types mechanically relevant to the card's abilities, although Tribal cards (noncreature cards with creature types) would obviously need a reason to be Tribal.

I can't speak for YWN here, but I don't really see race-class creatures as being in violation of the "spirit of the contest", and they're certainly allowed within the rules.
There's certainly nothing against designing run-of-the-mill creature types like Human Wizard in this contest. But if come judging I end up having to choose between a Human Wizard and a Dreadnought Rigger Mutant for a certain position, the later is definitely most likely to get the higher position.

However, and as it should also be obvious, if the decision is between an ordinary Elf Warrior that's original, well designed and is pretty to look at and an awesome-sounding Skeleton Goat Berserker that's in contrast horribly worded, b0rken as hell and a complete eyesore, the Elf Warrior is definitely most likely to take home the prize.

Hopefully that should clear things up. :)

Now, it's useless for me to present in-detail considerations about the cards I see, because five minutes later they're already completely different ones. So if first impressions are the only things I have time to give before the cards change yet again, first impressions are what I'll give:

@Kamahl's Disciple, you should probably consider making your card rare. As Cosi's Trickster itself is rare (as well as Burning-Tree Shaman, for reference), and activating abilities happens more frequently in a game than shuffling one's library.

@GG Crono, considering when the card loses flying and gains trample is because it became too heavy, it should care about the number of +1/+1 counters on it rather than its toughness. A shield or armor isn't all that heavy, after all. And the previous ability should specify in which creature are the +1/+1 counters being put on, too. So basically, "Whenever Festering Zilant deals damage to a creature, put that many +1/+1 counters on Festering Zilant. / Festering Zilant loses flying and gains trample as long as it has 6 or more +1/+1 counters on it." Also, four mana for its cost should be more appropriate.

@MTG59895, what if I simply use Disfigure on an creature with this card on the field, can you explain to me what would happen like I was a newb? Because Disfigure's effect doesn't end just because you gained control of the creature, y'know?

@ZeroMk2, please make only ONE post in the submission thread, and delete all others. And make sure the card you wish to submit is in the post you didn't delete. Thank you.

@KlassyReborn, what program are you using to render your card? Aren't you able to use MSE on your computer? If it is MSE you're using to make that render, sheesh! In addition, that art doesn't look very Spirit-y to me.

@Streetz, would you sacrifice your Korlash to save your Hypnotic Specter? Large creatures get abilities to get more resilient or to make you win the game, they don't get self-sacrificial abilities, you know what I mean? Still, that is one beautiful-looking render right there. :)

@_b4g3r_, it doesn't really fit with the rest of the cycle. They weren't legendary, they weren't mythic, they could be cast for less when you were losing not when you're winning, and they would still be worth the hardcasting cost if the optional one wasn't available. Paying eight mana for a 3/3 creature with abilities other tribes get for a lot less mana are definitely not eight mana well spent.

@Sucros, saying a creature is balanced because it dies to removal is one thing. Calling a creature that if you don't remove turns all your cards absolutely useless is completely different. Light of Day is among Wizards' Unfun Cards list, because it completely shuts down a plethora of decks without so much a sweat drop. It's not something they'll do any time soon. "What about Platinum Angel," you ask? Well Platinum Angel doesn't cost four mana, now does it?

@Flyingtacos, I personally preferred your bug card, that one is too alike Lieutenant Kirtar.

@holy5, if the plural of a creature type would cause confusion, just worded it like Wren's Run Packmaster. With that out of the way, samurai fight fair and either in defense of their honor or at someone's bidding. Either way, blue is the color of deceit and trickiness, thus more associated with ninjas than samurai, as Kamigawa has shown us.

@Le_Mirage, I was pretty convinced what separated planeswalkers from regular humans was not how strong they were but the fact they could cast spells. So if turning a player into a measly regular non-spell-casting human doesn't really take away the spell-casting detail, it's not really making him/her a regular measly human, now is it?

And that's it for today. Here's hoping nothing got changed while I was writing this post. :P Those I did not addressed I simply had nothing to say, good or bad. And that in itself may be good or bad, pending on your point of view. :)

JakeKessler

11-07-2009, 02:41 PM

... You should instead make the card give the ability automatically to your planeswalkers as long as it's on the battlefield.

That's a great idea. I'll do that.

**EDIT**

Implemented this approach. Also took out the "you control". Since your opponents now stand to benefit I lowered the cost to :1mana::u::u:. On the one hand, this turns Chandra Nalaar into an automatic Time Warp (without killing her). On the other hand, that doesn't seem so broken if it costs you three extra mana, an extra card and committing to a mana base that supports double-blue.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/MaaruGreatTeacher2.png

Kamahl's Disciple

11-07-2009, 03:16 PM

@Kamahl's Disciple, you should probably consider making your card rare. As Cosi's Trickster itself is rare (as well as Burning-Tree Shaman, for reference), and activating abilities happens more frequently in a game than shuffling one's library.

Huh, for some reason I thought Cosi's Trickster was an uncommon... Well, what you said makes sense, so I will change the rarity.

Cashew

11-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Still playing with simple fun ideas:

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2721&stc=1&d=1257630424

There's a lot of cross color hosing, but why isn't there a lot of cross color weakness?

KlassyReborn

11-07-2009, 04:14 PM

i like it. with everyone playing tri-colored decks it's rare you'll finda deck that can't handle it.

JakeKessler

11-07-2009, 04:31 PM

There's a lot of cross color hosing, but why isn't there a lot of cross color weakness?

"Destroy target nonblack creature"? Fear/seeker/red fear/intimidate?

... Yea, alright, that's about it.

I think this needs to be no less than mythic at 4/4-really-hard-to-kill-for-four-mana. Even then, it's really really good. Consider that it's nearly impossible to kill this guy in combat. He can keep turning sideways until you run out of blockers, or he can keep blocking until you stop attacking. He laughs off first strike and deathtouch... not to mention
Kalonian Behemoths and other stompies without trample. He's a tank. Black decks can still deal with him, but that's about it... even red decks, his supposed weakness, have to deal 4 damage at once to finish him off.

(Oh, by the way... why does the flavor text make it seem like red (fire) can't actually hurt him, when really it's the only thing that can?)

Le_Mirage

11-07-2009, 05:04 PM

@Le_Mirage, I was pretty convinced what separated planeswalkers from regular humans was not how strong they were but the fact they could cast spells. So if turning a player into a measly regular non-spell-casting human doesn't really take away the spell-casting detail, it's not really making him/her a regular measly human, now is it?

Probably not, but players, who (at least in the pre-planeswalker game, i'am not sure about now :D) are suppose to be planeswalker, start the game with 20 life, while we know from vanilla creatures that common human soldiers and wizards (who are suppose to be able to use magic as well) are usually 1/1.

In addition to that, as we know from planeswalker cards, not all the planeswalkers are human, and if they are, i think that is pretty reasonable that quite a lot of them have acquire the power to be far more strong than regular humans anyway, even if the started their life as mere scholars or commoners. The sense of my card is not to take away these powers, but to bind them to a miserable vessel of flesh that is easily killable.

anyway, the card must be fixed. Apart from it's mana cost, it should be worded "when humanization comes into play Enchanted player..." since, in the version i posted, the first ability is probably worded as a wrong static one, and by that it should overwrite every modify to the life total, even negative ones. On the other hand, by using a comes into play effect, the ability become stifleable, and even if it's a pretty weak drawback, i don't like it as it ruins the "inesorability" feeling of the card.
Is there a way to set the life total to 1 without using a triggered ability?

I think this needs to be no less than mythic at 4/4-really-hard-to-kill-for-four-mana. Even then, it's really really good.

Dont' know why but when i first read it i understood that it was immune to non-red instant and sorceries only, not creatures too...and i actually think that it would be a good fix and still a very decent uncommon.

xaer0knight

11-07-2009, 06:31 PM

just playing around with penguins :) yes the Magellanic Penguin has Mountainwalk because of his breeding area of the Mountains in Chile :)

p-chan

11-07-2009, 07:18 PM

Those I did not addressed I simply had nothing to say, good or bad. And that in itself may be good or bad, pending on your point of view. :)

Knowing that
Bad things happen when YWN is right. In other words, whenever he talks about designing cards., I'll think that your absence in commenting my cards is a good thing :p

MTG59895

11-07-2009, 07:33 PM

I have updated both of my post ideas.

@GG Crono: I guess that you can find your own art, but I thought this piece might be nice for Festering Zilant:
http://schur.deviantart.com/art/Typical-dragon-115519270

p-chan

11-07-2009, 07:47 PM

@MTG59895: Your art for Model Citizen is not very Magic-like. I would try with one of these (http://mikajima.deviantart.com/art/Cyborg-90474083)two (http://pataplouf.deviantart.com/art/Cyborg-33893979). I hope they help you.

JakeKessler

11-07-2009, 07:54 PM

@MTG59895: I don't know if this is how you intend it or not, but as printed, if you choose for Model Citizen to come in as a Clone, he won't have any other abilities. Which is to say, he won't have ":3mana::u:, :tap:: Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of Model Citizen."

MTG59895

11-07-2009, 08:43 PM

@p-chan: Thank you, yet again.
@JakeKessler: Thank you, yet again.

This is the second card-making contest I have entered, and I obviously have a long way to go to get as good as you two. I appreciate your feedback.

ALEX Ryugami

11-07-2009, 10:09 PM

I think it's just fine this way, infact. Maybe you can just rise it's mana cost or lower it's thoughenss or power. After all, it is suppose to grow bigger easily if there are creatures to destroy (even yours).

Have the destroy/sacrifice as an upkeep cost would make it less original.

Okay, maybe just raising the cost to :4mana::b::g:, or even :3mana::b::b::g: and become 4/4 since on the art its head is... four

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/ChomperingMonstrosity.jpg

i think this would give it just a little more balance and not too over powered. He eats your opponents creatures for Lunch!

Deathtouch
If a creature damaged by THIS is put in the graveyard, put a +1/+1 conter on THIS.
If it was a Human, put a +2/+2 counter on THIS instead.

(you could also add, Creature damaged by THIS, can't be regenerated.)

Hmm, good idea but its too similar with Vampires

JakeKessler

11-07-2009, 11:20 PM

@ MTG: Aww, shucks. You're sweet.

The way you've worded it now it keeps the token-making ability when it's a Clone, but not if you decided 'no' on the may effect. To solve this, I'd just take the may out and make the clone ability mandatory. "As CARDNAME enters the battlefield, choose a creature in play, etc..."

@ ALEX: I don't think Chompering is a word... Chomping Monstrosity? Monstrous Chomper? Hmm...

ALEX Ryugami

11-07-2009, 11:35 PM

@Jake: thanks for the suggestion :D

Cashew

11-08-2009, 12:59 AM

"Destroy target nonblack creature"? Fear/seeker/red fear/intimidate?

... Yea, alright, that's about it.

I think this needs to be no less than mythic at 4/4-really-hard-to-kill-for-four-mana. Even then, it's really really good. Consider that it's nearly impossible to kill this guy in combat. He can keep turning sideways until you run out of blockers, or he can keep blocking until you stop attacking. He laughs off first strike and deathtouch... not to mention
Kalonian Behemoths and other stompies without trample. He's a tank. Black decks can still deal with him, but that's about it... even red decks, his supposed weakness, have to deal 4 damage at once to finish him off.

(Oh, by the way... why does the flavor text make it seem like red (fire) can't actually hurt him, when really it's the only thing that can?)

Fire can hurt him, it just needs to be a lot of it. The flavor text (perhaps weakly since I have to explain it) implies that fire is its only true weakness. The only problem is that it is so strong you'll need a lot of it to stop it in its tracks.

When switching from Pro-Red to Strong-Against-All-But-Red. I realized that the viability of the card is ramped up, however it is not terribly overpowered. It is essentially a Indestructible variant to all but Red sources. Meaning it is about ~1/3 as powerful as Indestructible creatures since it is vulnerable to non-damage removal and all red cards.

just playing around with penguins :) yes the Magellanic Penguin has Mountainwalk because of his breeding area of the Mountains in Chile :)
Reminds me of Fallen Empires style cards and power levels. Which means you have some updating to do to make them viable as creatures & a tribe.

xaer0knight

11-08-2009, 01:14 AM

Fire can hurt him, it just needs to be a lot of it. The flavor text (perhaps weakly since I have to explain it) implies that fire is its only true weakness. The only problem is that it is so strong you'll need a lot of it to stop it in its tracks.

When switching from Pro-Red to Strong-Against-All-But-Red. I realized that the viability of the card is ramped up, however it is not terribly overpowered. It is essentially a Indestructible variant to all but Red sources. Meaning it is about ~1/3 as powerful as Indestructible creatures since it is vulnerable to non-damage removal and all red cards.

Reminds me of Fallen Empires style cards and power levels. Which means you have some updating to do to make them viable as creatures & a tribe.

Me = old school :p just posted them, i think its about time there were penguins in magic. but alas. Tux, the Frozen is my entry. i love my flavored text of Tux, its from "Madagascar."

ZeroMk2

11-08-2009, 01:35 AM

@ Your Worst Nightmare: I am sorry for the second post, mate. I am still fairly new to the site, and thus did not know better. Either way I would like to know what you think of my FINAL attempt on the card I submitted. Well, thanks for everything.

George G

11-08-2009, 02:46 AM

I'm with Jake on this Cashew. darksteel gargoyle is 7 mana for a 3/3 flyer. You are cutting 3 mana, adding +1/+1, for the exchange of flying and I can terror him now.

Cashew

11-08-2009, 02:59 AM

I'm with Jake on this Cashew. darksteel gargoyle is 7 mana for a 3/3 flyer. You are cutting 3 mana, adding +1/+1, for the exchange of flying and I can terror him now.

You're also adding a color - a color well defined for its efficient body sizes. However by your logic.

Darksteel Colossus - The mana requirements are on the same ratio. So it is on par with the mana to body size. However I lose trample and its far more vulnerable in exchange for reanimation capabilities. I also have to play in Green for mine, while Colossus can be played by any color. Thus Darksteel Colossus appears to be far better which means I haven't given mine enough power.

So Round 1 over. The winner: Perhaps logic and the ability to not evaluate a card on a single similar creature. You have to consider the whole. Case by case you can prove just about any card in Magic is poorly designed. After all, try to compare any creature's power to Chimney Imp and you'll find most cards in the game overpowered.

If you want to really compare - get on point: Thornling, Timber Protector, Spearbreaker Behemoth, Sapling of Colfenor

Le_Mirage

11-08-2009, 04:16 AM

If you want to really compare - get on point: Thornling, Timber Protector, Spearbreaker Behemoth, Sapling of Colfenor

Those card are all crazy, and probably a symbol of an inevitable and well-know drift in magic development: the fact that, when you are scratching the bottom of the barrel, you can only create more and even more broken cards.

...i still think, anyway, that we should take what we like of the game, not what we feel we must.

p-chan

11-08-2009, 05:28 AM

Those card are all crazy, and probably a symbol of an inevitable and well-know drift in magic development: the fact that, when you are scratching the bottom of the barrel, you can only create more and even more broken cards.

Those are NOT broken cards, believe me. Indestructibles? Maybe. Efficient in cost/body? Maybe. But the fact that you can't terror them (or their mates) doesn't make them overpowered. If not, when a player casts Korlash, Heir to Blackblade, what do you do, concede? You can: exile (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179235)it, bounce (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190183)it, counter (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189001)it, disintegrate (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=106636)it, pacifism (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190574)it, chumpblock (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197405)it, control (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=21141)it, make it's controller sacrifice (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=27251) it, ... hell, you can even Slave of Bolas it!!!!

I'm with Jake on this Cashew. darksteel gargoyle is 7 mana for a 3/3 flyer. You are cutting 3 mana, adding +1/+1, for the exchange of flying and I can terror him now.

George, the world of monogreen 4/4 for four mana has a king, Chameleon Colossus, and even if Cashew's card would be printed, our changeling majesty would remain on top.

Le_Mirage

11-08-2009, 05:58 AM

Those are NOT broken cards, believe me. Indestructibles? Maybe. Efficient in cost/body? Maybe. But the fact that you can't terror them (or their mates) doesn't make them overpowered. If not, when a player casts Korlash, Heir to Blackblade, what do you do, concede?

Wrath :).

Anyway yes, i understand what you say. There's always a response. But are the card themselves to be (and feel) absurds, even if on the gameplay there are plenty of things to mess with them.

...as a sidenote, that indesctructible was fallen in the green area was unknown to me, and i can't do nothing but disagree. Green should have been the color of exceptional strenght and size, and even regeneration, but not of indestructibility. Nothing is indestructible in nature.

George, the world of monogreen 4/4 for four mana has a king, Chameleon Colossus, and even if Cashew's card would be printed, our changeling majesty would remain on top.

I was still making my calculations upon Ravenous Baloth. I feel like a naive old rookie :(.

Cashew

11-08-2009, 06:00 AM

Those card are all crazy, and probably a symbol of an inevitable and well-know drift in magic development: the fact that, when you are scratching the bottom of the barrel, you can only create more and even more broken cards.

...i still think, anyway, that we should take what we like of the game, not what we feel we must.

Insane? Name one that is/was a staple tournament card. Only one I play is Timber Protector in tribal treefolk.

Le_Mirage

11-08-2009, 06:04 AM

Insane? Name one that is/was a staple tournament card. Only one I play is Timber Protector in tribal treefolk.

The fact that one card is insane, when confronted to others (expecially old ones), does not mean that there are not even more insane ways to spoil others cards better :D.

p-chan

11-08-2009, 06:42 AM

Wrath :).
I feel OWNED XD. I tried to think in the most fearsome-big-creature in the kitchen table games, but our ol-good-god still sweeps them easily.

The fact that one card is insane, when confronted to others (expecially old ones), does not mean that there are not even more insane ways to spoil others cards better :D.

Yo have your part of reason here, but you must realize a fact: in early magic, lots sorceries and instants were clearly OVERPOWERED, (Ancestral Recall, Wheel of Fortune, Mind Twist, BALANCE, ...)while "big" and "fearsome" creatures were very very vanila compared to them(Erhnam Djinn, Serra Angel, Juzam Djinn). That's why creatures grew more and more efficient as time went by, to handle equaly all types of cards.

MTG59895

11-08-2009, 10:06 AM

@JakeKessler: I would make Model Citizen's ability mandatory, but first I would like to know why Clone (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=191321)'s and Sculpting Steel (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=135241)'s respective abilities are not. I can't fathom why not.

Your Worst Nightmare

11-08-2009, 10:16 AM

In addition to that, as we know from planeswalker cards, not all the planeswalkers are human, and if they are, i think that is pretty reasonable that quite a lot of them have acquire the power to be far more strong than regular humans anyway, even if the started their life as mere scholars or commoners. The sense of my card is not to take away these powers, but to bind them to a miserable vessel of flesh that is easily killable.
Then why "Humanization"? Aren't Goblins, Elves, Vedalken, Merfolk, Dryads, Kor, Viashino, and other such humanoid races just as trapped to miserable and easily killable vessels of flesh as Humans are?

anyway, the card must be fixed. Apart from it's mana cost, it should be worded "when humanization comes into play Enchanted player..." since, in the version i posted, the first ability is probably worded as a wrong static one, and by that it should overwrite every modify to the life total, even negative ones. On the other hand, by using a comes into play effect, the ability become stifleable, and even if it's a pretty weak drawback, i don't like it as it ruins the "inesorability" feeling of the card.
Is there a way to set the life total to 1 without using a triggered ability?
As CARDNAME enters the battlefield, enchanted player's life total becomes 1.

Reference: Lich.

@ Your Worst Nightmare: I am sorry for the second post, mate. I am still fairly new to the site, and thus did not know better. Either way I would like to know what you think of my FINAL attempt on the card I submitted. Well, thanks for everything.
It's all good, don't sweat it. :)

As for your card, it can get very powerful in multiplayer games, as people most likely won't be able to draw enough cards consistently just to keep up with the Sphinx's forced discard ability, let alone to be able to play normally despite it. (Considering it triggers at EACH opponent's end step and it affects ALL players.) So people can get died pretty fast. Thus I'd suggest changing the trigger's timing either to only your upkeep/end step, or keep the trigger in every player's upkeep/end step but have it affect only that player.

CoglineErro

11-08-2009, 10:20 AM

Me = old school :p just posted them, i think its about time there were penguins in magic. but alas. Tux, the Frozen is my entry. i love my flavored text of Tux, its from "Madagascar."

I am in 100% agreement. Power to the penguins! As we speak i have begun work on them as well. Problem is they look a bit like merfolk right now...

FuDaWg45

11-08-2009, 10:42 AM

Okay, maybe just raising the cost to :4mana::b::g:, or even :3mana::b::b::g: and become 4/4 since on the art its head is... four

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/ChomperingMonstrosity.jpg

I like this, but the flavor text needs work. Try to write the same thing in a more poetic manner.

xaer0knight

11-08-2009, 10:44 AM

I am in 100% agreement. Power to the penguins! As we speak i have begun work on them as well. Problem is they look a bit like merfolk right now...

its also hard to find good artwork for penguins as well. mostly you'll find awesome pictures from National Geographic or Wikipedia but not to many hand drawn artwork.

As far as my power levels... I was trying to make them a stable in Core sets (like portal, starter, etc). nothing to earth shattering or new. this maybe just the beginning, there are over 20 species of penguins. so a card for each one. also you could make a fun Sea Lion card for em too...

Emperor Penguin = School of Piranha (with Islandwalk)
King Penguin = Lord of Atlantis

:)

CoglineErro

11-08-2009, 10:56 AM

Penguins are for the most part WU. They have evasive abilities, they can swim, cold does not touch them, and they live in groups. This leads to protective abilties, islandwalk, anti-blue abilities, and tribal abilities.

Also, i have put up my entry. I like this one. A slightly new take on a classic.
http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/coglineerro/MindScourge.jpg?t=1257698658

Your Worst Nightmare

11-08-2009, 12:04 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/MaaruGreatTeacher2.png
Better idea:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/YWNightmare/MDV1/JakesIdeaS.jpg

It's kinda crude as it was done in a hurry, so I'll leave it to you to make it look better. :)

JakeKessler

11-08-2009, 05:24 PM

I don't have photoshop, and that's hard to do in MSE. It would involve PRNT SCRN + mspaint, and would be pretty ugly when resized to fit the text.

The other option is just cutting/pasting from your version, which seems... I don't know. Unprofessional? Uncreative? Something.

Flyingtacos

11-08-2009, 05:43 PM

Le_Mirage

11-08-2009, 06:24 PM

Then why "Humanization"? Aren't Goblins, Elves, Vedalken, Merfolk, Dryads, Kor, Viashino, and other such humanoid races just as trapped to miserable and easily killable vessels of flesh as Humans are?

Yes, but humanity is always under the spotlight :D. And, even in an RPG contest, humans used to be the less physically strong race, or the only race, anyway, that has no particular edge or quality if not adaptability and cunning (...where the others share a particular bond with nature that makes them maybe not stronger but somewhat "better" and "blessed", such as elves, dryads and merfolk...while the vedalken are natural born genius).

More, even if the card mechanic is enough black anyway to adapt to other interpretations too (like a plain lethal disease or the like), my flavor is not build around a simple metamorphosis (that would have been blue, green in case of a reincarnation, or even red as in Form of the Dragon), but on a particulary cruel one, that epitomize every bad sides of flesh, disease and grief. By that, the card not only set the opponent to 1 life, but even deny life gain. Again, humans are the best choice for this type of effect since their nature allow them to reach the worst corruptions by civilization, ambition, impotence and a great deal of other things...and even feel guilty for it. While, for example, goblins would not really care :D.

...the tribal Wizard is troubling me, i know...but i think i'll keep my "real world" interpretation (what are the all possibile target of this card, if not players, and what are players if not Human Wizards :D?) and take the risk.

As CARDNAME enters the battlefield, enchanted player's life total becomes 1.
Reference: Lich.

Thanks :). I'll say that i really like this judge that gives ideas and feedbacks ;)

George G

11-08-2009, 09:43 PM

I think this needs to be no less than mythic at 4/4-really-hard-to-kill-for-four-mana.

I'm with Jake on this Cashew. darksteel gargoyle is 7 mana for a 3/3 flyer. You are cutting 3 mana, adding +1/+1, for the exchange of flying and I can terror him now.

Darksteel Colossus - The mana requirements are on the same ratio. So it is on par with the mana to body size. However I lose trample and its far more vulnerable in exchange for reanimation capabilities. I also have to play in Green for mine, while Colossus can be played by any color. Thus Darksteel Colossus appears to be far better which means I haven't given mine enough power.

If you want to really compare - get on point: Thornling,

This makes me smile. Jake says it should be mythic and thats ok. I agree with Jake and all heck and backlash breaks out. The kicker is while getting defensive you site two different MYTHIC rares to compare to your uncommon....

George, the world of monogreen 4/4 for four mana has a king, Chameleon Colossus, and even if Cashew's card would be printed, our changeling majesty would remain on top.

The arguement here is that Cashew's card should not be an uncommon....You comparing it to Chameleon, one of the best green creatures ever, strengthens that arguement. We're not comparing Baneslayer Angel to Shepherd of the lost.

Le_Mirage

11-09-2009, 02:15 AM

The arguement here is that Cashew's card should not be an uncommon....You comparing it to Chameleon, one of the best green creatures ever, strengthens that arguement. We're not comparing Baneslayer Angel to Shepherd of the lost.

Well...if this monstrosity (Chameleon Colossus) is RARE, then Cashew card can really placidly be an UNCOMMON and be done with it. We are talking about a pumpable creature that can be abused in any possible thinkable tribal deck, immune (like it was not enough) to the most of the main creature killing cards (for really no reason) against a creature with the same body and cost and an ability that barely amount to the option of becoming an 8/8, even if for a cost of :2mana::g::g:.

...anyway, maybe we should not be fixated too much on card comparison. Creating a card we like for fun reasons is not like creating a card that is suppose to be perfectly balanced with all the others, or almost. The fact that, at this point, Magic itself is clearly unbalanced (at least if not taking the various tournament formats in considerations)...strengthens that arguement ;).

ALEX Ryugami

11-09-2009, 05:16 AM

I like this, but the flavor text needs work. Try to write the same thing in a more poetic manner.

Yeah, I'm sucks at flavoring a card, especially I don't know a lot of good, poetic words. I'd be very glad if anyone could do that favor but it's okay if nobody wants :D

Le_Mirage

11-09-2009, 05:53 AM

Fixed my entry art title and wording, even if it's not definitive yet. Not sure about the art yet, i'll repost them again here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/Le_Mirage/Humanization2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/Le_Mirage/Humanification.jpg

@Jake: ...your card, i don't quite like it, mainly cause it's too much plainswalkers tech, and a pretty dead card without them. On the other hand, it's too much "play it, remove 5 counter, extra turn!", for me,also. It can be an enchantment or even an instant or sorcery and it would not be that different.
It's flavor, too, it's a little strange. Who is this master wizard whose powers reflects only in the (already great powers) of a planeswalker? Such a wizard would be probably a planeswalker himself. I can't really see him being shadowed by a planeswalker, even if he's suppose to one of his students (...but i really can see Sorin Markov threatening him for that extra turn, more than attending his lessons :D!).

Your Worst Nightmare

11-09-2009, 11:07 AM

Considering what YWN said concerning the beetle, how do you guyz think I can improve it? Fudawg already said it should not be hybrid
Why exactly shouldn't the card be hybrid again? o.O

More, even if the card mechanic is enough black anyway to adapt to other interpretations too (like a plain lethal disease or the like), my flavor is not build around a simple metamorphosis (that would have been blue, green in case of a reincarnation, or even red as in Form of the Dragon), but on a particulary cruel one, that epitomize every bad sides of flesh, disease and grief. By that, the card not only set the opponent to 1 life, but even deny life gain. Again, humans are the best choice for this type of effect since their nature allow them to reach the worst corruptions by civilization, ambition, impotence and a great deal of other things...and even feel guilty for it. While, for example, goblins would not really care :D.
1) If the card is supposed to symbolize all bad things about flesh and it has the creature type Human, what is one supposed to infer from it other than that only Humans have flesh? Since that is clearly not the case, one of the two could use a change.
2) Humans may be innately the most corruptible race, but since what this card does is force that corruptibility on someone else, considering that the victim may or may not be Human, how is that Human-related in of itself? That would be something more accurately categorized by Demons, Horrors, or something like that.
3) The idea that this card confers the feeling of mortality to the victim makes more sense than conferring the feeling of guilt, me thinks.

...the tribal Wizard is troubling me, i know...but i think i'll keep my "real world" interpretation (what are the all possibile target of this card, if not players, and what are players if not Human Wizards :D?) and take the risk.
If one's playing Vanguard, a player can be a Minotaur, a Goblin, a Shapeshifter, an Elemental, . . . .
And if one's playing with an all-artifact deck, the term 'Wizard' may not apply so well either.

Thanks :). I'll say that i really like this judge that gives ideas and feedbacks ;)
Well, it would certainly suck hardcore to have another ThunderHog after we'd finally gotten rid of the original one, now wouldn't it? ICEBURN! XD (No Hoggie, you're not rid of me yet. :P)

JakeKessler

11-09-2009, 11:18 AM

You've got two questions here, one about balance and one about flavor, so I'll answer them one at a time.

@Jake: ...your card, i don't quite like it, mainly cause it's too much plainswalkers tech, and a pretty dead card without them. On the other hand, it's too much "play it, remove 5 counter, extra turn!", for me,also. It can be an enchantment or even an instant or sorcery and it would not be that different.

One reason I put this on a creature rather than an enchantment is that it's never a "dead card". 2/3 for :1mana::u::u: is fairly aggressive even at vanilla. Even if this is the sort of rare that goes around the table a couple of times in a draft, the guy who ends up with it is going to play it if he's in blue. It's easily a playable body in the draft setting, even if you don't have planeswalkers--and it's combo-tastic enough with planeswalkers for constructed play.

As for the time walk ability, the earliest any planeswalker can hit the table and be up to five loyalty is turn 5 (or the equivalent of turn 5 for you green players). This is the same turn you could cast Time Warp if you were running that over Ma'aru. (I'm using Time Warp as the example because it's also a mythic and because it's in Standard right now, so it seems like an accurate barometer of what Wizards would cost that effect at these days on a mythic.)

Doing it Ma'aru's way, you already have to invest a minimum of two cards (Ma'aru and the planeswalker) and both of those cards' mana costs, which will always total more than :3mana::u::u:. In a word, using Ma'aru + planeswalker to Time Warp is more expensive in both cards and mana than just casting Time Warp in the first place, and it's much more disruptable because there is way more creature hate out there than there is countermagic.

So no, I don't think Ma'aru is unbalanced in either direction. I think he's underwhelming but playable alone, and inefficient but potentially powerful with planeswalkers. Which is about what you want for a combo creature.

It's flavor, too, it's a little strange. Who is this master wizard whose powers reflects only in the (already great powers) of a planeswalker? Such a wizard would be probably a planeswalker himself. I can't really see him being shadowed by a planeswalker, even if he's suppose to one of his students (...but i really can see Sorin Markov threatening him for that extra turn, more than attending his lessons :D!).

Two things.

First: Post-future sight, the nature of the planeswalker spark has changed, and planeswalkers aren't superpowerful gods anymore--they're just mortal wizards who can travel between planes. This is why they're willing to join forces now for mutual aid and protection (something that used to be a very rare thing, but now happens every time a player casts a planeswalker spell). It's also the reason Nicol Bolas and Liliana Vess bother with all of their far-reaching schemes for power. In the old days, there would have been no reason for them to waste their time with such plans; they would have had all the power they could need.

Second: There is a difference between raw power and particular skills. As I said, nowadays planeswalkers are (on a basic level) about as powerful as mortal wizards. Some planeswalkers are more powerful than others, just as some mortal wizards are more powerful than others, but they are all nearly comparable in terms of raw power. Their abilities--that is, the particular skills or spells they know how to employ--are what separate them and give them advantages over one another.

So given these two facts, it is perfectly reasonable for a planeswalker to seek out a mortal wizard to learn a particularly rare or difficult brand of magic. Ma'aru may or may not command as much raw power as Jace Beleren, even if Jace is a planeswalker and Ma'aru is not. Even if Jace is the more powerful of the two, he may not already know the particular skills and spells Ma'aru can teach him. This makes it valuable for them to ally, at least temporarily.

Why can't Ma'aru cast this magic himself? Perhaps he knows the skill, but he lacks now the necessary resources to cast it. I can teach you how to bake brownies, but unless I have all the ingredients I can't really do it myself. Planeswalkers, by their nature, have access to mana from across the multiverse--given time to forge the right bonds, they could put Ma'aru's teachings to use. Maybe Ma'aru used to be a planeswalker himself, and lost his spark somehow (like Teferi, or Ob Nixilis). Or maybe some natural (or unnatural) event on his plane disrupted his connection to its mana. The possibilities are endless.

Le_Mirage

11-09-2009, 12:31 PM

1) If the card is supposed to symbolize all bad things about flesh and it has the creature type Human, what is one supposed to infer from it other than that only Humans have flesh? Since that is clearly not the case, one of the two could use a change.

Let's say that it 's too much of an abstract card, to try and find it a unique realistic way to imagine in a "magic and wizards" setting. It's another "old style", more designed around a concept than around a fictional spell that is suppose to exist in some fantasy setting.

That would be something more accurately categorized by Demons, Horrors, or something like that.

Yes, but those creature revel in evil and grief. What makes humans special in this sense, again, is that they can exalt themselves in evil as they can fall under it's weight. And sometimes, as often happen in fantasy or gothic stories, they (expecially evil wizards :)) believe to be willing to do every possibile evil to reach their goals, only to find themselves suprisingly fallen into misery by their own deeds.

3) The idea that this card confers the feeling of mortality to the victim makes more sense than conferring the feeling of guilt, me thinks.

It can be just that, after all. But, what i wanted to give to this card is a sense of frailty and smallness, that it's suppose to be both physical (as humans are indeed frail creatures) and moral (as they fall too much often to corruption). Being forced to 1 life point, on the brink of defeat but not actually defeat (as being small and being corrupted does not mean unavoidable death), i think it's the best way to depict this feeling.

If one's playing Vanguard, a player can be a Minotaur, a Goblin, a Shapeshifter, an Elemental, . . . .
And if one's playing with an all-artifact deck, the term 'Wizard' may not apply so well either.

That's why i say that the card somewhat blends between the real world and the game one :D. On a RPG level, a player can be everything, but in the real world, it's a human posing as a wizard. So that's a spell perfectly designed upon their only possibile victim :)!.

...anyway, the tribal Wizard is surely weak (and the weakest point of the card) in this sense, no matter what. On the other hand, i really like this card, maybe that's just not it's contest. Maybe i will change it.

Well, it would certainly suck hardcore to have another ThunderHog after we'd finally gotten rid of the original one, now wouldn't it? ICEBURN! XD (No Hoggie, you're not rid of me yet. :P)

Hey, let's not be bad now...ok, forget it: let's be bad :o!

MTG59895

11-09-2009, 02:55 PM

I am considering using the following card as my entry. Any thoughts as to how it compares to Model Citizen or Deadpulse Converter? Also, I would like to know if anyone thinks I should change Model Citizen's name. I think its name might not fit its effect.

JakeKessler

11-09-2009, 03:22 PM

KlassyReborn

11-09-2009, 04:07 PM

@ MTG: I think it's acceptable at rare, not mythic. 'Nightstalker Knight' is a pretty cool type line. (Knightstalker?) I don't know that it's all that original, though, since you just stuck Shrouded Lore on a creature.

Also... artist?

it's also a probability taht WotC will print it then, beacuse hell how many cards has Firebreathing built in? or Lobotomy --> Shimian Specter...etc

MTG59895

11-09-2009, 05:15 PM

Here is the updated, original Knightstalker (thanks for suggesting the name, Jake) and another version. Thoughts?

JakeKessler

11-09-2009, 05:47 PM

it's also a probability taht WotC will print it then, beacuse hell how many cards has Firebreathing built in? or Lobotomy --> Shimian Specter...etc

That is an excellent point, and cards that are blatantly unprintable tend to not score well in contests. All the same, a winning card will be original as well. Taking an existing effect and putting it verbatim on a different type of card (sorcery --> creature, etc) isn't very creative.

ZeroMk2

11-09-2009, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Your Worst Nightmare

It's all good, don't sweat it. :)

As for your card, it can get very powerful in multiplayer games, as people most likely won't be able to draw enough cards consistently just to keep up with the Sphinx's forced discard ability, let alone to be able to play normally despite it. (Considering it triggers at EACH opponent's end step and it affects ALL players.) So people can get died pretty fast. Thus I'd suggest changing the trigger's timing either to only your upkeep/end step, or keep the trigger in every player's upkeep/end step but have it affect only that player.

Thanks for the idea, and perhaps all it would take is a little finesse in the re-wording, I'll look into it. Thanks.

KlassyReborn

11-09-2009, 08:22 PM

That is an excellent point, and cards that are blatantly unprintable tend to not score well in contests. All the same, a winning card will be original as well. Taking an existing effect and putting it verbatim on a different type of card (sorcery --> creature, etc) isn't very creative.

touche

@Zero, i'm failing to see how this version is different than the others.

Flyingtacos

11-09-2009, 09:27 PM

@YWN: I don't know why Fudawg said it shouldn't be hybrid.
@ everyone: Any suggestions concerning both cards would be appreciated.
(Beetle text is on pg 11).

JakeKessler

11-09-2009, 10:46 PM

@Zero, i'm failing to see how this version is different than the others.

He made it trigger on just his end step rather than everybody's end step.

FuDaWg45

11-09-2009, 11:55 PM

Considering what YWN said concerning the beetle, how do you guyz think I can improve it? Fudawg already said it should not be hybrid so the text version of the card currently looks like this
Scavenger Beetle
3BG Rare
Creature - Insect Zombie
Wither, Trample
Whenever a creature an opponent controls is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on Scavenger Beetle.
4/3

This can't be hybrid because a pure green creature would never have that last ability. Hybrid cards are about finding similarities between the colors, and making the card make sense no matter what type of mana you spend to play it.

For instance, look at Kitchen Finks. Aggressive body for cost - ok, white and green both have that. Gain life - ok, both white and green have that. Persist - ok, in the block both white and green have that. Good to go.

Now look at your card. Wither - ok, black and green have that. Trample - ok, black and green have that. Opposing creatures die and buff your dudes - I can't think of any green card that does that.

Your card should therefore be either all black, or black/green multicolor. Hope that helped shed some light on my previous comment. :)

KlassyReborn

11-10-2009, 12:54 AM

This can't be hybrid because a pure green creature would never have that last ability. Hybrid cards are about finding similarities between the colors, and making the card make sense no matter what type of mana you spend to play it.

For instance, look at Kitchen Finks. Aggressive body for cost - ok, white and green both have that. Gain life - ok, both white and green have that. Persist - ok, in the block both white and green have that. Good to go.

Now look at your card. Wither - ok, black and green have that. Trample - ok, black and green have that. Opposing creatures die and buff your dudes - I can't think of any green card that does that.

Your card should therefore be either all black, or black/green multicolor. Hope that helped shed some light on my previous comment. :)

Algae Gharial. May be the exception, but i just wanted to prove you wrong in someway

JakeKessler

11-10-2009, 01:21 AM

Algae Gharial. May be the exception, but i just wanted to prove you wrong in someway

Point.

Green is the color of the natural cycle, life and--from time to time--death. Green is the color of Fecundity, after all, not to mention Foster, Life from the Loam, and yes, Algae Gharial. Green is the secondary color for death-related effects after black, kind of how black is the secondary color of card advantage (after blue).

I see no real issue with this card in hybrid. Hybrid cards tend to blur the lines a little bit with primary and secondary colors for effects anyway (looking at you, Deus of Calamity).

KlassyReborn

11-10-2009, 01:29 AM

oh and dont' forget Golgari Germination ;)

CoglineErro

11-10-2009, 03:01 AM

Hybrid cards tend to blur the lines a little bit with primary and secondary colors for effects anyway (looking at you, Deus of Calamity).

Wait a sec. Both red and green have trample, big creatures, and ld. What is so blurry about this card? I could see it printed as mon-either of those colors.

holy5

11-10-2009, 06:05 AM

@p-chan: Love the fact that you're bringing the Zuberas back to life ( both figurly and literally ).
But I have a question about the zuberas in general, how they work. (and yes, I'm aware that this is thread isn't designed for that)
Say I sac 3 Floating-Dream zuberas, what will happen? do I get to draw 6 cards? (1 for the first, 2 for the second and 3 for the last) or 9 cards (3 for each)

Keep up the good work!

MTG59895

11-10-2009, 08:47 AM

I've come up with three different versions of Knightstalker. Any thoughts on which is the best/most balanced?

FuDaWg45

11-10-2009, 09:18 AM

Algae Gharial. May be the exception, but i just wanted to prove you wrong in someway

Take a closer look. The green version is one that affects all creatures, including your own - it's on the edge of green, but I will admit that it's green (along with Jake's other examples below). The custom card suggested triggers only for opposing creatures - which is most definitely a black characteristic. Maxing off your dead enemies is not green - recycling in a natural way all creatures (or just yours) is green.

Point.

Green is the color of the natural cycle, life and--from time to time--death. Green is the color of Fecundity, after all, not to mention Foster, Life from the Loam, and yes, Algae Gharial. Green is the secondary color for death-related effects after black, kind of how black is the secondary color of card advantage (after blue).

I see no real issue with this card in hybrid. Hybrid cards tend to blur the lines a little bit with primary and secondary colors for effects anyway (looking at you, Deus of Calamity).

I agree with your first paragraph. However, Deus could be monogreen or monored. Admittedly, if it was monogreen it would likely say "combat damage," but it would still be fine as is.

oh and dont' forget Golgari Germination ;)

Hi there black/green card. :p

Wait a sec. Both red and green have trample, big creatures, and ld. What is so blurry about this card? I could see it printed as mon-either of those colors.

Correct.

And before someone goes and finds a hybrid card that doesn't really fit both of its colors, know that this has already been discussed at length during the rumor season for shadowmoor/eventide. In my opinion as a designer, if you go hybrid, your card should make sense in both mono colors.

It's just an opinion though, and I'm not judging the contest. So... there ya go. XD

I've come up with three different versions of Knightstalker. Any thoughts on which is the best/most balanced?

I don't like the first one. Shrouded Lore was from planar chaos, which deliberately messed with the color pie. Black only returns creature cards from your graveyard, not any card. That's a green ability. The second one is alright, but I think the third is the most interesting. I'd say go with that one.

xaer0knight

11-10-2009, 02:26 PM

I've come up with three different versions of Knightstalker. Any thoughts on which is the best/most balanced?

i personally like the last one. the untap ability is pretty nifty, you have to figure a way to hit your opponent with it (flying, unblockable,etc), i think it more fun :)

JakeKessler

11-10-2009, 02:51 PM

I see no real issue with this card in hybrid. Hybrid cards tend to blur the lines a little bit with primary and secondary colors for effects anyway (looking at you, Deus of Calamity).

Guys, all I was saying here is that hybrids often have effects that are primary in one color but secondary in the other. Green is secondary for land destruction, whereas red is primary. Yes, they both get it from time to time. Yes, the Deus could totally be printed in either of those monocolors.

By the same token, Flyingtaco's card is totally fine in hybrid because the +1/+1 counter effect is secondary in green (both in life-from-death flavor on lots of cards, and the specific mechanic on Algae Gharial) and primary in black.

p-chan

11-10-2009, 03:13 PM

Say I sac 3 Floating-Dream zuberas, what will happen? do I get to draw 6 cards? (1 for the first, 2 for the second and 3 for the last) or 9 cards (3 for each)
Great question my young padawan :D. You draw 9 cards, three for each. Why? Because when he triggered abilities resolve, they check again the number of zuberas put into any graveyard this turn. And that's it, when they resolve, the three zuberas are already into your graveyard. The thing about the zuberas is that mass removal doesn't work with them :P

Hybrid cards are about finding similarities between the colors, and making the card make sense no matter what type of mana you spend to play it.
Yeah, well ... has monored any kind of "creatures can't attack this turn" card besides Master Warcraft? Has monowhite any kind of opponent's graveyard reanimation besides Debtors' Knell? Has monogreen any kind of "destroy target creature" card besides Mercy Killing? If the effect of an hybrid card is unique enought, the color barriers blur. This is a fact that I wanted to say when I presented Veil of the Witch (http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7964/veilofthewitch.png) for this contest, but ... well, I simply forgot :P

JakeKessler

11-10-2009, 04:23 PM

Alright YWN, I decided to do it your way. It's just prettier like this. Hope that doesn't cost me originality points.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/MaaruGreatTeacher3.png

Luthervamplord

11-11-2009, 08:32 AM

Read through some old DnD notes - decided to go for something MTG has never touched on.

Ladies and Gentlemen; I present the b**tard child of a Human - Elf union.

Le_Mirage

11-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Guys, all I was saying here is that hybrids often have effects that are primary in one color but secondary in the other. Green is secondary for land destruction, whereas red is primary. Yes, they both get it from time to time. Yes, the Deus could totally be printed in either of those monocolors.

Blah. I don't remember a lot of green cards based on damage dealt in specific situations (while red has quite a few), apart from Bloodlust ones that was printed when green was already suppose to have them (which, infact, was not). And even if they exist...just as for indestructability, green should not have been focused on the "numbers" of crude violence, even if it's perfectly able to deal them. But whatever.

KlassyReborn

11-11-2009, 11:51 AM

Blah. I don't remember a lot of green cards based on damage dealt in specific situations (while red has quite a few), apart from Bloodlust ones that was printed when green was already suppose to have them (which, infact, was not). And even if they exist...just as for indestructability, green should not have been focused on the "numbers" of crude violence, even if it's perfectly able to deal them. But whatever.

I have to agree, in fact, the only card I know of that has to do with damage dealt in a way that only has a hint of green in Phytohydra *shivers*

Le_Mirage

11-11-2009, 11:58 AM

I have to agree, in fact, the only card I know of that has to do with damage dealt in a way that only has a hint of green in Phytohydra *shivers*

As it's a sign of resistance and toughness, green has some mechanics related to damage dealt to it...just as the Phytohydra. What it does not have (or it should have not) is mechanics related to damage it does on others...since i think they symbolize torture and cruelness well beyond the necessary, and green, even if it's the bash in the head color, is not about them.

KlassyReborn

11-11-2009, 12:11 PM

As it's a sign of resistance and toughness, green has some mechanics related to damage dealt to it...just as the Phytohydra. What it does not have (or it should have not) is mechanics related to damage it does on others...since i think they symbolize torture and cruelness well beyond the necessary, and green, even if it's the bash in the head color, is not about them.

oh then I misread. But the only thing green has when dealing damage is drawing cards, not too torturous,

Flyingtacos

11-11-2009, 02:42 PM

posted new version of bug, feedback is appreciated greatly

Le_Mirage

11-11-2009, 03:04 PM

oh then I misread. But the only thing green has when dealing damage is drawing cards, not too torturous,

It was an attemped steal from blue!!!!!! *blue maniac inside ;):D*

KlassyReborn

11-11-2009, 03:32 PM

Tacos, i like Version 1 the best, however, I'd have his P/T be 1/2, something low and have the ability to get huge rather than a 3/2 beast right off the bat, this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree anyone

evol_intentions

11-12-2009, 10:09 AM

Im going in a new direction, what do we think??

FuDaWg45

11-12-2009, 03:01 PM

@Artifactor: You gave this creature a name - that means it should be legendary. I also think it should be "Whenever Hobart deals lethal combat damage to a creature, destroy target land."

@Cashew: "Misnomer" isn't the proper word in your flavor text.

@Evol Intentions: I like it. "When Spirit of War attacks or blocks, you may have it deal its combat damage divided as you choose among any number of attacking or blocking creatures." I don't like the end of the flavor text. Who says you can't fight for love? Haven't you seen Braveheart?

JakeKessler

11-12-2009, 03:19 PM

"When Spirit of War attacks or blocks, you may have it deal its combat damage divided as you choose among any number of attacking or blocking creatures."

This shouldn't be a triggered ability. It should be modeled after Rhox:

"You may have Rhox assign its combat damage as though it weren't blocked."

"You may have Spirit of War assign its combat damage divided as you choose among any number of attacking or blocking creatures."

Flyingtacos

11-12-2009, 09:13 PM

not to discount klassy's feedback, but i need more in order to make a decision. any thoughts maybe on other abilities, wording, mana cost, P/T, etc?

JakeKessler

11-12-2009, 10:01 PM

Okay, uber feedback time.

@Luther: The only half-elf/half-human I know of in Magic currently is Radha, Heir to Keld, and Wizards decided to omit her Human creature type. Given the spirit of this contest, I'm not saying you're wrong to go a different way, just thought you'd like to know there's a least one human/elf out there that doesn't use the Human creature type. Also, 3/3 for :1mana::b::g: seems kind of big for a non-legendary with two abilities and no drawback.

@Evol-intentions: Make sure you say "divided as you choose". Right now, you could choose to have the creature deal its damage over and over again to each creature, which I'm pretty sure isn't what you had in mind. I'd follow Rhox or Doran the Siege Tower as closely as possible for wording since they deal with assigning combat damage in unusual ways.

@thomasdm: First things first--you want to say "renowned" in the flavor text, not "renown". Second, the second ability needs to be worded as "each Soldier creature" rather than "Soldier creatures". You want to be able to block an additional creature with each one of your soldiers, not just one additional creature with all of them. Each Soldier creature you control can block an additional creature each turn or Soldier creatures you control have "This creature can block an additional creature each turn" is how I would word this. Finally, there's got be a better picture of a cat person on the internet somewhere. Besides being grayscale and not very pretty, the cat actually looks like an artifact creature with those metal arms, and you haven't made the card an artifact.

@Klassy: What is UP with the text on your cards? Are you making these in mspaint? Go download MSE like the rest of us.

@Flyingtacos: I like this version (http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5287/scavengerbeetle.jpg) the best. Unfortunately, it's really similar to Alex's card, albeit a little smaller and less overpowered. Not saying that counts against you, but I try to avoid posting something really similar to somebody else's entry when I can help it.

@Death's Harpbringer: I really like the idea of this card. Check the spelling of Hydra on the type line. Also put some periods at the ends of your sentences. While you're at it, see what's up with that comma on the next line. Did you put the space weird there, or did MSE just mess up rendering? Either way fix it.

By the way... I can't help but point out that a harbinger (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harbinger) is another word for herald. A harpbringer, near as I can tell, brings harps.

@Holy5: Vodalians are still Merfolk, and the race name for octopus-people is still Cephalid. I'd change the name to Cephalid Bushi. As for the card itself, everything about it seems white rather than blue. Samurai? White. Bushido? White. Buffing all of your creatures at once? Very white. I'd rethink how you're concepting this card.

@Xaer0knight: Tux is adorable and well-balanced. Put some periods at the ends of your sentences.

@Le_Mirage: Even with such a brutal effect, the CMC of ten makes this feel uncastable. I don't see Wizards printing this card as is. Maybe make it a suspend-only card like the Hypergenesis cycle? Or maybe add some kind of additional (nonmana) cost such as exiling cards from your library or sacrificing permanents? You can make this card late-game-only and steep to cast without making it cost ten mana. I'm also not wild about the flavor of turning players into humans, but that's a debate that's been had already.

@Artifactor: Hobart needs to be legendary. The first line of text isn't a sentence and shouldn't have a period on the end. You want to say Whenever Hobart deals lethal combat damage to a creature or Whenever a creature dealt combat damage by Hobart this turn is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, rather than "destroys a creature by battle". I also happen to think the card is a little unbalanced since it basically says "If you don't kill me I will destroy all of your blockers and lands in not very many turns."

You're welcome!

KlassyReborn

11-12-2009, 11:59 PM

Jake, i'm being 100% honest, i AM using MSE...i think it's my computer. Let me see if I can change the font some way. I'll work on it and try to put up a better version, if I can't figure it out, then I apologize, this one is out of my hands, and I hope i don't get penalized for it.

Edit: It is my computer, and when I try to do flavor text it won't Italicize it. Maybe I'll switch computers later and find out what the problem is.

JakeKessler

11-13-2009, 01:16 AM

KlassyReborn

11-13-2009, 01:22 AM

o.O Weird. Wow man, that sucks.

tell me about it. I just want to be normal like everyone else! :'(

Luthervamplord

11-13-2009, 03:08 AM

@Luther: The only half-elf/half-human I know of in Magic currently is Radha, Heir to Keld (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Radha,%20Heir%20to%20Keld), and Wizards decided to omit her Human creature type. Given the spirit of this contest, I'm not saying you're wrong to go a different way, just thought you'd like to know there's a least one human/elf out there that doesn't use the Human creature type. Also, 3/3 for :1mana::b::g: seems kind of big for a non-legendary with two abilities and no drawback.

Details, details - But I agree with you on the power rating rating - how about if I drop the P/T to 2/2?

p-chan

11-13-2009, 03:25 AM

By the way... I can't help but point out that a harbinger (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/harbinger) is another word for herald. A harpbringer, near as I can tell, brings harps. LOL XD

Jake, i'm being 100% honest, i AM using MSE...i think it's my computer. Let me see if I can change the font some way. I'll work on it and try to put up a better version, if I can't figure it out, then I apologize, this one is out of my hands, and I hope i don't get penalized for it.

Edit: It is my computer, and when I try to do flavor text it won't Italicize it. Maybe I'll switch computers later and find out what the problem is.

That also happened to a friend of mine, and that was because he copied the MSE files from my computer instead of installing if from the exe file in the MSE web. May it be your situation?

KlassyReborn

11-13-2009, 03:29 AM

That also happened to a friend of mine, and that was because he copied the MSE files from my computer instead of installing if from the exe file in the MSE web. May it be your situation?

this is it, since it's not my computer i use it froma flash drive, will the font really screw with my score?

JakeKessler

11-13-2009, 03:35 AM

Details, details - But I agree with you on the power rating rating - how about if I drop the P/T to 2/2?

Why not just make it legendary? It's only a little over the power curve from where it should be, given that monogreen can make a Centaur Courser. I think it'd be fine as is if you just made it a rare legend.

ALEX Ryugami

11-13-2009, 10:02 AM

Another ideas come to mind :P and I'm a bit scarry when I see the art (especially when I post this, it's near midnight here :D)

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/HauntingThestral.jpg

Thoughts??

evol_intentions

11-13-2009, 11:24 AM

Okay, uber feedback time.

@Evol-intentions: Make sure you say "divided as you choose". Right now, you could choose to have the creature deal its damage over and over again to each creature, which I'm pretty sure isn't what you had in mind. I'd follow Rhox or Doran the Siege Tower as closely as possible for wording since they deal with assigning combat damage in unusual ways.

This shouldn't be a triggered ability. It should be modeled after Rhox:

"You may have Rhox assign its combat damage as though it weren't blocked."

"You may have Spirit of War assign its combat damage divided as you choose among any number of attacking or blocking creatures."
Well that would just be a functional reprint of Butcher Orgg (which is how you would word the ability you concieved)
i belive butcher orgg only assigns the damage to one creature but then you can to choose to deal it how you want, seeing as its rules texts states that if it doesnt assign damage you cant use its ability (If it is blocked but then all of its blockers are removed before combat damage is assigned, then it won't be able to deal combat damage and you won't be able to use its ability.), and thats what i was going for for spirit of war.

I think i missed out the word 'any number of different attacking or blocking creatures.

JakeKessler

11-13-2009, 06:25 PM

i belive butcher orgg only assigns the damage to one creature but then you can to choose to deal it how you want, seeing as its rules texts states that if it doesnt assign damage you cant use its ability (If it is blocked but then all of its blockers are removed before combat damage is assigned, then it won't be able to deal combat damage and you won't be able to use its ability.), and thats what i was going for for spirit of war.

I think i missed out the word 'any number of different attacking or blocking creatures.

Honestly, I forgot Butcher Orgg existed. But yes, Butcher Orgg words the ability the way you want and you should emulate it:

You may divide Spirit of War's combat damage as you choose among (defending player and/or) any number of (attacking or blocking?) creatures.

Adding the word "different" in there won't change anything; "divide... among any number of creatures" already lets you divided it between more than one creature.

Here are the judge rules for Butcher Orgg listed on Gatherer:

10/4/2004 If it is blocked but then all of its blockers are removed before combat damage is assigned, then it won't be able to deal combat damage and you won't be able to use its ability.
10/4/2004 You can use the ability to divide damage even if it is not blocked.
10/4/2004 If you choose to use the ability to divide up the damage (and there is at least one point of damage to be assigned), you must choose at least one creature or the defending player, and can't choose more total creatures and players than the amount of damage being assigned (minimum 1 point per player or creature).

Not assigning combat damage is what usually happens when a creature is blocked and then the blockers are removed, unless the creature has trample. Butcher Orgg doesn't have trample. If you add trample to your creature, it will fix this for attacking. Your creature still won't deal any damage if it blocks a creature and the blocked creature disappears, though.

evol_intentions

11-14-2009, 04:52 AM

JakeKessler

11-14-2009, 05:44 AM

but kessler, i dont want it to divide its damage between any number of attacking or blocking creatures as its only a 2/2 (which means 1 damage to any 2 creatures...YAWN) i want it to deal 2 damage to any number of attacking or blocking creatures.

I dont know why your telling me so insistently it needs to divide it.

edit: My grasp on the correct wording would be:

You may have spirit of combat assign its combat damage to any number of attacking or blocking creatures.

Wow, I've assumed this whole time that dividing it was what you were trying to do. Lol.

"You may have spirit of combat assign its combat damage to any number of attacking or blocking creatures" is correct.

MTG59895

11-14-2009, 11:41 AM

Here are my two post ideas as thumbnails. Also, I found some art for Verisieni (http://ironshod.deviantart.com/art/Evil-plant-35664250) and Festering Zilant (http://schur.deviantart.com/art/Typical-dragon-115519270). Oh yeah, and there was one piece of art I found that might work for either (http://typhoon89.deviantart.com/art/Back-to-Roots-31241158). I hope this helps.

Flyingtacos

11-14-2009, 10:33 PM

added another card to my submission. comments, concerns, and suggestions are appreciated.

KlassyReborn

11-14-2009, 11:26 PM

ALEX Ryugami

11-16-2009, 05:35 AM

Anyway, what do you think about Haunting Thestral guys?? Does the flavor text fit the card?? And also the haunting ability...

@Klassy: I like it, but the flavor text feels white :)

p-chan

11-16-2009, 06:06 AM

I was thinking about redoing mine to something more simple:

Orc Lifegiver - R
Creature - Orc shaman (c)
T, Sacrifice ~: Add RR to your mana pool.
"He sacrifices his life so that others may live."

Should I switch it up or leave my other one as is?
Well, I would stick to the spirit warrior, because all you did here is to put Rite of Flame on a stick.

Anyway, what do you think about Haunting Thestral guys?? Does the flavor text fit the card?? And also the haunting ability...

Well, creatures with haunt usually do things when they come into (or leave) play, and when the haunted creature leaves play. What you did is an interesting twist, but it seems too much too much to Cashew's last month in abilities and flavour. I would go with Chomping Monstrosity.

Also, I've been thinking about mines, and I would like to tweak Noun a little (she needs it). I tounght about, instead of being a static ability, the "resurection" part should be "1: Target Zubera you control gains soulshift 4 until end of the turn." This way it wouldn't be absolutely free as it was. What do you think? In any case, i think I will go with Riposte

KlassyReborn

11-16-2009, 12:13 PM

Well, I would stick to the spirit warrior, because all you did here is to put Rite of Flame on a stick.

i was wondering why it seemed unoriginal to me -.-''

ALEX Ryugami

11-17-2009, 02:51 AM

@p-chan: Ah yea, it's too similar with Soul Thief *shrug*. OOT: I just realized that your name and avatar referencing a character from Ranma-Half :P

I think Noun is more balanced if you give the activated cost, and for Riposte, even the art doesn't show how it could hit player (it just more like to hitting the creature that blocking it)

Cashew

11-17-2009, 08:50 AM

New Card! Comments?

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2766&stc=1&d=1258467919

Concept: A slight update to Licids. I wanted to create a creature a spirit creature that was drawn to creatures of a certain tribe. Wolf became my natural choice due to the already existing link between Wolves and Spirits. The Wolf Spirit essentially exists as a Spirit, but when a new Shaman enters the battlefield its essence is instinctively drawn to assist the Shaman returning to its Spirit form once its task is done.

Design Notes:

While Turntimber Ranger has been the most recent Wolf token creator. There has been a Wolf creation theme from Shamans in Magic. This undoubtedly comes from real life & AD&D traits of the Shaman.
http://discordianism.suite101.com/article.cfm/totem_wolf_spirit_guide

A hidden treat though is the direct inspiration - Everquest. I'm sure numerous players have tried to create Spirit of the Wolf homage cards, but I really like the design on this one. If you're not familiar. SoW is a nature spell primarily cast by Druids, Shamen, Beastlords, & Rangers that speeds up your character's movement. SOW has become a standard acronym in MMROPG for a movement speed increase. Makes me all nostalgic for my first MMROPG character ever - Tokken a Halfling Druid.

I chose to limit it to only Shaman creatures out of simplicity although Druid was included early on in the design. Shaman in Magic do have a minor affinity towards Wolf creatures which solidified my design. See: Master of the Wild Hunt, Wolf-Skull Shaman

OutlawD1

11-17-2009, 12:19 PM

Submitted mine.

What would happen if a volcano turned into a dragon? A fatty that would give any Timmy a hard on. Its also acts as a lava axe while you build up your mana.
Wasn't sure to make him either an Avatar or Incarnation. Choose Avatar since in magic Incarnations are usually for abstract ideas.

And there are others under the spoiler that I'm still unsure about.

Your Worst Nightmare

11-17-2009, 01:53 PM

this is it, since it's not my computer i use it froma flash drive, will the font really screw with my score?
Kinda...

In other news,

@evol_intentions, flavor text makes little sense. And the card has little oomph for what's supposed to be a rare.

@Cashew, it should specify "Whenever a Shaman creature enters the battlefield under your control," and the last part would read better if it were instead "end this effect at end of turn." Making the ability optional would also be an improvement.

@CoglineErro, the second ability could use a "then that player shuffles his or her library" clause.

@p-chan, I preferred the previous version.

@Umexx, I preferred your previous card.

@MTG59895, considering Tsabo's Assassin is a 1/1 creature for four mana, your card seems kinda above the curve. And that art hardly seems Nightstalker-y to me.

@thomasdm, white background on a card's art is a major turn off. Making the card a 2/2 wouldn't overpower it either.

@George G, I can see you tried to make a younger version of Vaevictis Asmadi, but wouldn't that in itself imply that the Elder creature type is out of place? Y'know, young != Elder? Not only that, but the drawback lacks finesse and the card isn't all that powerful to begin with to warrant it.

@Flyingtacos, I still favored the other version of your bug card, and as for the Crosanix one, just no.

@xaer0knight, if Penguins existed in Magic, wouldn't they simply have the creature type Bird? Moa do and they don't seem to mind. But what most stands out for me in this card is actually its name (he doesn't look like he's frozen to me) and its art (I said Magic was PG-13, and that meant not going over that line nor under it).

@Artifactor, a Troll without regeneration? And what's "destroys a creature by battle" supposed to mean? The symbol I like though. Dunno what's a machinery cog have to do with a mountain troll, but it's a very pretty symbol nonetheless.

@Coldstone, the one rule of this month's contest, and you managed to butch it up. That, sir, is what the denizens of the internet call an epic fail. Not to mention that Landfall abilities trigger on any kind of land entering the battlefield while yours spell differently, and that you should really give some breathing room between the text of the abilities. Or you could simply scrap the idea altogether and start anew since the card isn't much more than Grazing Gladehart anyway.

@OutlawD1, this Valakut seems more alive than I remembered it. But the amount of things wrong with its text box is just too much for me to spell out here. In the wise words of Ludwig Mies van der Rohe, "Less is more", so try to trim down what exactly your card is supposed to do and discard the rest. BTW, if you're going to make a card with Zendikar-centered flavour, giving it Zendikar's expansion symbol wouldn't be a bad idea.

Oh, and that reminds me: 5-day notice people! On November 22nd submission time will be no more, so it's high time you chose (or make) your final definitive submission, post it, and dispose of the rest. For the sake of convenience. :)

KlassyReborn

11-17-2009, 02:00 PM

@Outlaw, Your card looks to me that you went down a list of abilities and said "Oh that looks good" to too many things. I'd simplify him.

PS: Well it looks like i won't be winning the monthly card contest for a while if the font is that important. I'll just keep sumbmitting til I get my own computer.

Your Worst Nightmare

11-17-2009, 02:11 PM

PS: Well it looks like i won't be winning the monthly card contest for a while if the font is that important. I'll just keep sumbmitting til I get my own computer.
You could ask people here if they could render the card for you, if you ask them nicely. :)

.... Photobucket mucked it up, YWN. I had edited the card differently, but for some reason, when you upload an image that has the same name as one you did previously, it displays the OLD version of it, for some daggone reason. I'll fix it now.
You need to log out and log back in for it to clear the cache, otherwise stuff like that happens. :)

KlassyReborn

11-17-2009, 02:34 PM

You could ask people here if they could render the card for you, if you ask them nicely. :)

in that case, could someone PLEASE redo my card so it doesn't look like poop?

The image I used is this:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/KlassyReborn/Warrior-Spirit_1.png

OutlawD1

11-17-2009, 03:08 PM

He is suppose to be a shameless Timmy card, but I'll try to come up with better wording and less stuuufffff.

JakeKessler

11-17-2009, 03:33 PM

@ Coldstone: Something I started doing to stop that problem is changing the number at the end of the filename every time I post a new version. Then I go edit my post to reflect the new filename.

Luthervamplord

11-17-2009, 04:15 PM

All I do is upload the file, view it (it will appear as the old image) then refresh the page - This clears the cache wtjout the need to log in and out; but make sure to delete the older file first.

George G

11-17-2009, 05:52 PM

Okay, I know this is super risky....

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/ZontGreyAmbassador.jpg

Warrior doesn't feel right, but there for now....thoughts?? A colorless non-artifact creature.... everything is technically an alien in magic though..sooo...

JakeKessler

11-17-2009, 08:57 PM

Make it Advisor type ^^

Seriously though, maybe keep it to just creatures' abilities. This is an instant-win combo with Chandra Nalaar, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Ajani Vengeant...

CoglineErro

11-17-2009, 10:06 PM

@CoglineErro, the second ability could use a "then that player shuffles his or her library" clause.

But that would be redudant since the cards are already being shuffled into the library as per the effect. Maybe if it says for the opponent to shuffle them in?

George G

11-17-2009, 10:35 PM

Make it Advisor type ^^

Seriously though, maybe keep it to just creatures' abilities. This is an instant-win combo with Chandra Nalaar, Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, Ajani Vengeant...

How? and even if it is...I have to have Nicol Bolos in play...

JakeKessler

11-17-2009, 11:34 PM

How? and even if it is...I have to have Nicol Bolos in play...

Any one of those cards is an insta-win with your card. Here's how.

The rules for planeswalkers say that any activated abilities of a planeswalker can only be activated at sorcery speed, one ability per turn. The rule governs the planeswalker permanent type, not the abilities...

This means that if another permanent somehow gained Chandra Nalaar's ability "Put a loyalty counter on this card: This card deals 1 damage to target player," the new permanent would NOT be limited to casting that ability once per turn unless it was a planeswalker itself.

Chandra Nalaar and Sorin Markov are the most straightforward examples, but any planeswalker than can deal damage by itself could result in a similar combo. Copying Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker's abilities, your creature could power up an infinite number of times (stacking, say, 1,000,000 copies of the first ability targeting the same permanent, since you'd be activating at instant speed), then spend all that loyalty the same turn using Bolas's ultimate an infinite number of times. You could similarly use Ajani Vengeant's abilities to cast an infinite number of Lightning Helixes, Elspeth to make an infinite number of Soldiers, Sarkhan to make an infinite number of (infinitely large and hasty) Dragons, Garruk to net an infinite amount of mana WHILE making an infinite number of infinitely large trampling Beasts, or Liliana to stop any opponent from keeping cards in hand while you fix all of your draws for the rest of the game.

To see Wizards' Mark Gottlieb explain this, check out http://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/429 and scroll waaaaay down to #998: "It's Alive":

Combo: Chandra Nalaar & Memnarch & Karn, Silver Golem & Experiment Kraj

The recipe for animating a planeswalker is as follows:

Any planeswalker

+ Mycosynth Lattice or Memnarch to turn it into an artifact

+ March of the Machines or Karn, Silver Golem or Karn's Touch or Xenic Poltergeist to turn it into a creature

Once you accomplish that twisted bit of grotesquerie, you can attack or block with your planeswalker. But let's think bigger! The instant-win combo is to add Quicksilver Elemental or Experiment Kraj, and then have that creature gain all of the planeswalker creature's activated abilities. Since neither Quicky nor Kraj is a planeswalker, it isn't limited by the "play one ability per turn" rule. You can add a bazillion loyalty counters to either of them to repeatedly activate the first ability they learned from Chandra, which deals a bazillion damage to your opponent. Once you add enough loyalty counters to it, you can then start to play the abilities that cost loyalty counters too—but why? (Didn't you read the bazillion damage bit?)

Your card circumvents this janky four-card combo by taking abilities from all permanents, not just creatures. In essence, you are printing a two-card instant-win, something Wizards strives never to do.