August/September 2009 - MCC - Discussions Thread

[ThunderHog]

Discuss all of your sevens here. And, while we're at it, let's wish MDV a happy 7th birthday!!!

[Umexx]

Happy birthday MDV!!! Yaaay! :gift:

Hmm, so if we add the threshold reminder text we automatically get the seven onto the card, right? :hmm:

[ThunderHog]

The more sevens the better, but yeah I guess that would count.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Well, I'm an early bird this time around, my submissions up already, been on a rather creative streak in the past few days. :)

Any and all comments, critiques and suggestions are welcome.

[Streetz]

Placeholder:

Hex +1 :5mana::b::b:
Sorcery
Destroy seven target creatures.
Sometimes, even six just ain't enough.

I laughed really hard at this. I'm not too sure the concept was funny enough to deliver a laugh like that from me, but hey -- good job on getting me to laugh. :E

[uber_panda]

Ok, just submitted mine.
I tried to use seven as much as I could, and they're scattered through out the card.
Some are more blatant than others but they should be easy to spot.
Tips, hints, and suggestions are always welcomed.

[JakeKessler]

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=302523&postcount=9

Seven-letter card name. Converted mana cost seven. Seven letter card type. Seven words of rules text. And seven words of flavor text... each of which is seven letters.

/flex

[Plaguefather]

Happy B-Day MDV and JakeKessler!

MY submission's up, Seven Casting Cost, Seven PErmanents, and flavors kinda cool. from six to seven. llol

Anywhos, any suggestions on the wording would be much appreciated, didn't actually know how to word it!

ps even the artist's name has seven on it!

[JakeKessler]

@ PF: It's funny since we were just talking about this at the end of last month's thread. If you're looking for something in your library you need to say search.

[_b4g3r_]

Happy B-Day MDV!

So my card is up, any thoughts?

@JakeKessler

:eek: lots of sevens there :D I like it...


and BTW, today I installed Windows 7 on my PC :)

[Streetz]

b4g3r - does that include snow mana? Your card, that is. When you say any type of mana is that supposed to incluide any color and any Snow type? :)

[_b4g3r_]

b4g3r - does that include snow mana? Your card, that is. When you say any type of mana is that supposed to incluide any color and any Snow type? :)

hmmm good question :)
I didn't thought about snow... I meant any color... so is the wording off the way it is now?

[uber_panda]

@_b4g3r_
Here's what I would change about it.



Mana Flow - Legendary Snow Land
T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
If you control seven or more lands, lands you control have "T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool."
Grandeur - Discard another card named ~: Until end of turn, lands target player controls lose all abilities and have "T: Add 1 to your mana pool."


Since the art seems to be a tundra, I change it to a snow land. Of course that won't affect all your lands, just Mana Flow. Plus it gives the card type seven syllables. Still I wouldn't trust my wording just yet, just my opinion.

[JakeKessler]

@ b4g3r: A few things.

1. To clarify the above discussion, "snow" isn't a type of mana, it's a supertype of permanent. Snow mana is defined as any mana generated by a snow permanent source. For simplicity's sake, I'd eschew the use of snow on your card.

2. The mana-changing ability should be a static replacement effect (if, as) rather than a triggered ability (when). Here's how I would template it (based off of Pulse of Llanowar):

As long as you control seven or more lands, if a land you control is tapped for mana, it produces mana of a color of your choice instead of any other type.

3. Likewise, the final ability would be better templated like this:

Grandeur - Discard another card named Mana Flow: Until end of turn, if a land target player controls is tapped for mana, it produces colorless mana instead of any other type.

4. Nitpick thing, but in its base state the land doesn't actually make anything but colorless mana. It should therefore have a colorless land frame (like Terramorphic Expanse) rather than a gold one.

Hope this helps!

[Tekkactus]

The 7 part is super forced (it'd be balanced at 2 or 3), but I took it in a different direction. See if you "get it".

None of you are going to comment on the design, though, I'm sure. It's all going to be about the temp art.

[uber_panda]

Changed my card to fit seven flavor more.
Taken after Apocalypse Hydra.
Name is based off the Latin word for seven, septem.
The art of the hydra has seven heads.
Has seven s's in it's name.
When you pay 7G, you get a 7/7 creature, get to put seven +1/+1 counters (hopefully) on seven different creatures to have a creature with seven different abilities.
The flavor has seven different words that begin with the letter S.
Unfortunately the flavor has only 13 instances of the letter S, just couldn't fit in that last one for 14, a multiple of seven.

[JakeKessler]

Tekkactus - I'm quite positive I'm missing out on whatever overarching design idea is supposed to be at work here. The card screams that you're going for something very specific in making it, but I'm just not getting it. It seems like a weird, too-large depletion land that makes random colors and hurts you at the same time. I don't get the flavor of a tree that attracts mages here, either. Why is it red-black-white? Why are you using age counters (typically only used for cumulative upkeep) rather than the charge/storage/depletion counters typically used on this kind of land? And why is a tree letting me make white mana as much as I want, red and black mana a limited number of times but hurting me for it, and green mana not at all?

!confused

EDIT

@ uber_panda: You want to split up the first two abilities; distributing the counters should happen when the creature enters the battlefield, whereas its own counters are determined as it's coming in. Like this:

CARDNAME enters the battlefield with X +1+1 counters on it.
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, if there are seven or more counters on it (or "if X is 7 or greater"), distribute seven +1/+1 counters among any number of target creatures.

The reason to make the counter distribution a separate, triggered ability is that you're targeting creatures with it, and generally people get the opportunity to respond when something gets targeted.

A couple of other, minor things to consider:

1. Do you want the distribution ability to be able to target the legend itself? If not, make sure you say "other creatures".

2. Do you want to make the distribution optional, or modular? "Up to" and "you may" are phrases to consider if you want to offer the player a choice.

3. Do you want to restrict the distribution to your own creatures? Personally I think it's more fun if you're allowed to load up your opponent's guys.

4. The +1/+1 counters theme makes me wonder if this guy wouldn't be even cooler as a green-blue Simic gold card. (This would also force the cost up slightly, and make the creature a little less nuts. XGU is still a pretty affordable cost, even in monogreen.) Hydras in mythology have a blue feel anyway since they are water creatures, and although Magic doesn't usually observe that connection, you are depicting a water-living hydra on your card. Besides, you know I have thing for gold cards.

[Tekkactus]

Tekkactus - I'm quite positive I'm missing out on whatever overarching design idea is supposed to be at work here. The card screams that you're going for something very specific in making it, but I'm just not getting it. It seems like a weird, too-large depletion land that makes random colors and hurts you at the same time. I don't get the flavor of a tree that attracts mages here, either. Why is it red-black-white? Why are you using age counters (typically only used for cumulative upkeep) rather than the charge/storage/depletion counters typically used on this kind of land? And why is a tree letting me make white mana as much as I want, red and black mana a limited number of times but hurting me for it, and green mana not at all?

You didn't "get it". Say the name out loud really slowly. If you still don't figure it out here's a hint. (http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/)

[Kamahl's Disciple]

The 7 part is super forced (it'd be balanced at 2 or 3), but I took it in a different direction. See if you "get it".

None of you are going to comment on the design, though, I'm sure. It's all going to be about the temp art.

Well, it is a rather "funny" looking temp art, it just doesn't make sense, but that's what makes it "funny".

Anyways, I will get my reviews done in now.

@Umexx: - That's a lot of disruption, somehow I feel like this artifact's activation cost should also cost seven.

@Krakn Slayer: - This card is broken, please fix it.

@uber panda: - I like this card as it is.

@JakeKessler: - I really like this card, this will probably make it in my top three by the end of the month. I don't think you have to change a thing.

@Plaguefather: - I don't like this card, it just doesn't click with me, plus I am sure there is some wording issues with it. Ask someone to help you with that.

@_b4g3r_: - The second and third ability need to be worded in a different way, I am not sure myself how to word it, ask someone else for help on that.

@Tekkactus: - This card doesn't really wow me like your other entries... Sorry to say that but maybe you can add the other two colors to it to make it better. Also, it should come into play tapped or have some sort of payment to come into play untapped because so far, its better then a basic plains...

[JakeKessler]

@JakeKessler: - I really like this card, this will probably make it in my top three by the end of the month. I don't think you have to change a thing.

:P You're sweet.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

:P You're sweet.

No prob. By the way, you mind reviewing my card? Seems like whenever I try to ask people to do that, they don't, its like I am breaking some sort of etiquette around here. :confused:

[JakeKessler]

No prob. By the way, you mind reviewing my card? Seems like whenever I try to ask people to do that, they don't, its like I am breaking some sort of etiquette around here. :confused:

Oh, sure. Sorry, I didn't see you had posted one yet. Sometimes I scroll a little fast in the submissions thread.

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=302470&postcount=5

I think this is a really powerful combo card. The timing works well, too, since you can drop it after your fourth land-drop and then activate it on the next turn's upkeep. Seven cards is a lot, though, and I think this might be a little too turbo... Consider you could be drawing close to seven cards every time in the right deck. Here's one way I might approach it, but there are certainly other directions.

:2mana::g::g:, Discard your hand, Sacrifice Nature's Domain: Reveal the top seven cards of your library. Put all creature and land cards revealed this way into your hand, then put the rest into your graveyard. Play this ability only during your upkeep.

In any case, you have a really fun engine here--have fun tweaking it!

[_b4g3r_]

I will look over you're sugestions...

@ Tekkactus

Why do you have a praying Naruto in your art? :D

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Oh, sure. Sorry, I didn't see you had posted one yet. Sometimes I scroll a little fast in the submissions thread.

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=302470&postcount=5

I think this is a really powerful combo card. The timing works well, too, since you can drop it after your fourth land-drop and then activate it on the next turn's upkeep. Seven cards is a lot, though, and I think this might be a little too turbo... Consider you could be drawing close to seven cards every time in the right deck. Here's one way I might approach it, but there are certainly other directions.

:2mana::g::g:, Discard your hand, Sacrifice Nature's Domain: Reveal the top seven cards of your library. Put all creature and land cards revealed this way into your hand, then put the rest into your graveyard. Play this ability only during your upkeep.

In any case, you have a really fun engine here--have fun tweaking it!

Thanks for the input, I implemented some of what you said and added my own twist to it. You don't have to discard your hand, but now you need to have no hand in order to activate it. Plus, instead of just listing all those card types, I chose to go with "Permanent cards". Since that seems like what direction magic is taking for green when dealing with card draw or retrieval in M10, ala Nature's Spiral.

[JakeKessler]

Good call on "activate", I should have caught that. You do want to say "number" rather than "amount", though.

I don't know about the empty hand requirement... it's a really hard hoop to jump through, and it skews the card into a hold-nothing aggro strategy rather than the combo-tastic flavor it had before. Ditching your hand as a cost is steep but allows you to use it any time.

[uber_panda]

@ JakeKessler
When it was in the first stages of being created, I thought about making it a Simic fatty with overtones of Apocalypse Hydra and Experiment Kraj, especially as the hydra in the picture is seen rising out of the water. However, I didn't feel that that was the right direction to go, but I think it would be a better idea now, especially with the flavor text I added in.

I thought it would be much more interesting if the ability could target itself, as one could just drop 1 counter on a creature like Akroma, and suddenly have 13/13 with flying, haste, trample, and vigilance

Although adding "When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, if there are seven or more counters on it, distribute seven +1/+1 counters among any number of target creatures." to different line makes wording a little tight in the card box.

I'm still trying to work around some things, but I still have two weeks before the dead line, so I should figure something out by then.

[JakeKessler]

Although adding "When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, if there are seven or more counters on it, distribute seven +1/+1 counters among any number of target creatures." to different line makes wording a little tight in the card box.

The solution is to lose the flavor text. I like the flavor text alright, but it doesn't really add anything to the card, and the two abilities need to be separate because they happen at different times.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Good call on "activate", I should have caught that. You do want to say "number" rather than "amount", though.

I don't know about the empty hand requirement... it's a really hard hoop to jump through, and it skews the card into a hold-nothing aggro strategy rather than the combo-tastic flavor it had before. Ditching your hand as a cost is steep but allows you to use it any time.

Alright, I can see what you mean by this, so I will add the discard your hand cost to it. It seems to make more sense to me the more I look at it anyways.

[JakeKessler]

Alright, I can see what you mean by this, so I will add the discard your hand cost to it. It seems to make more sense to me the more I look at it anyways.

Probably for the best. I just realized, if you kept the empty-hand requirement, that would be functionally identical to Hellbent. But you're out of color (and presumably out of block) for Hellbent, so...

Functionally identical to a keyword is a weird place to be in. Wizards themselves try to avoid it... Stinkdrinker Bandit gives a +1 to toughness solely so that they could avoid it being the only card in the block with Frenzy.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Stinkdrinker Bandit gives a +1 to toughness solely so that they could avoid it being the only card in the block with Frenzy.

I think it's just because it's more of black's flavor to give more power then toughness, like in Unholy Strength.

[JakeKessler]

Nah, Rosewater or someone wrote an article about design stories for Morningtide and talked abou it. They wanted to avoid using Frenzy, lol. I'll see if I can dig up the link for you, it's a fun read.

[Plaguefather]

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2332&stc=1&d=1249334605

Okay, had an entirely new idea, it's still the seven idea. but worked upon. Ideas'?

Suggestions, constructive criticism? Wanna win this month. ;)

oh crap, it still says apocalypse dragon, oops, ill fix that before this is over, maybe on next edit.... :)

[MechMage]

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/4is111/LegendoftheSevenWonders.jpg
I have no idea if its over or under powered. Thoughts?
Plague- Your dragon effectively mills your opponent to seven and empties his hand. Even with the tutering effect, and ignoring the milling, that dragon is pushing it. 7 mana for a 7/7 flier doesn't leave much room for abilities.

[uber_panda]

@ Plaguefather
Has a very Grixis feel that I like, but just some wording issues, despite the obvious name problem.
But the wording means only 1 opponent,
I feel as if it should read:


When ~ enters the battlefield, exile all cards in target opponent's hand, graveyard, and library. That player may choose up to seven cards they own from outside the game, and shuffle them into their library.


Wording inspired by the Wishes, and it would free up some space.

[Stuffy Doll]

@mechmage, in my opinion, i think the land should be legendary, helps with the goal and stops your opponents from going for the same goal. it also takes the fastest-turn (at one land per turn) from turn 8, to....you guessed it.....7!


You didn't "get it". Say the name out loud really slowly. If you still don't figure it out here's a hint. (http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/)

haha! i get it! awesome name....behind the curve, i know..... :D :D :D

[Plaguefather]

Hmm, it's been revised on the submissions thread, don't you think ill get docked for letting my opponent theoretically get cards from their binder? I know that the wishes can only target your sideboard in tournies, but will TH take that into account?

[ThunderHog]

Hmm, it's been revised on the submissions thread, don't you think ill get docked for letting my opponent theoretically get cards from their binder? I know that the wishes can only target your sideboard in tournies, but will TH take that into account?
Nope. I love casual stuff - just so long as it doesn't go into UN-stuff.

[uber_panda]

@ Plaguefather
It should work the same as the wishes, so by those rulings it means:
- In a sanctioned event, a card that's "outside the game" is one that's in your sideboard or one that's been removed from the game. In an unsanctioned event, you may choose a card from either of those places or from your collection.
- Can acquire cards which are removed from the game by other cards. Such cards are in the "removed from game" zone.

So they shouldn't be able to just get seven random cards from their binder (unless it's casual), they would have to get it from the exiled cards (in this case their exiled library, graveyard, and hand) and their sideboard.

And MechMage has a very good point. You milling your opponents, well, everything, and not giving them very much of a chance, because even if they have all the cards for a killer combo they don't have much of a chance when you have a 7/7 flying beatstick.

[Plaguefather]

I think everyone is forgetting a major white staple in standards past, Path To Exile. Note that the thing doesn't have haste, and they could easily pick up 2 paths in their tutor and kill it. or they could simply pacify it, destroy it, or whatnot, its not got shroud! you can still target it and kill it! and in constructed, five mana is usually the cutoff for hardcast. 7 mana is exceedingly difficult to amass especially when running in the wrong type of deck. or against the fae they'll just spellstutter it.!!!!!!

[JakeKessler]

First things first. @ FuDaWg45:

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=302640&postcount=15

This is right on, IMO. I've been waiting for this card to be printed! Nice work. =D


against the fae they'll just spellstutter it.!!!!!!

Yea, if they have seven faeries in play already.

Look, just because it costs seven mana doesn't mean you can put any ability you want on it. Even if they do Path to Exile it, you still get the brutal enters-the-battlefield effect. Do you have any conception of how exponentially more devastating this is than Cruel Ultimatum, or any planeswalker's ultimate? How many decks do you know that can have any chance of winning the game with nothing but seven cards from their sideboard, or even seven random cards from their collection? And while staring down a 7/7 flyer with no cards in hand an a nearly-empty library? Give me a break!

One way to make it less broken would be at least make the cards you leave them with things that were already in their deck--you know, like the possibility of a win condition. Another way would be to set it up like Oblivion Ring and the nightmares from Odyssey block: reverse the effect when it leaves the battlefield.

Something like,

When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, exile target opponent's hand and graveyard. That player searches his or her library for seven cards and exiles the rest, then shuffles that library.
When CARDNAME leaves the battlefield, that opponent shuffles the exiled cards into his or her library.

or similar. With this kind of setup, you'd still kill their hand if you resolve the dragon, but at least if they kill it they don't still autolose.

EDIT

Idea to fix it #2: Do a balanced version of the effect as a sorcery. Maybe something like:

:3mana::u::b::b::r:
Each player searches his or her library for seven cards and exiles the rest. Exile all hands and graveyards. Each player shuffles his or her library, then draws a card.

[Luthervamplord]

Let's see, how many sevens can I get into one card.... (Number's in Brackets count the sevens):

Name: Agrogan, Guardian of the Seventh Hell (3)
Cost: 3BBBB (1)
Type: Legendary Minotaur Warrior (1)
Whenever a creature blocks or is blocked, destroy that creature.
7/7

BTW: For those not in the know, there is a very relevant reference material you could read to see where this idea comes from: Dante's Inferno, Part of the Divine Comedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_%28Dante%29)

[kingez36@hotmail.co.uk]

Right a little bit of feedbakc for the group:

Cashew:- lolz, this was my first idea to. And just like the rest of your entries, very well designed.

Umexx:- elegant design, horrible to play against though and in a game where on turn five players are starting to top deck, quite powerful and annoying to.

Krakn slayer:- it wouldnt stick to the flavour of magic

Kamahls Disciple:- i really like it, 20 out of 5 for aesthetics with that lovely art work and very nicely designed. Although, and im just throwing ideas around, how much would it tweak the balance if this was a re-usable effect.

uber panda:- i hate the name im afraid, that double s needs changing, and the wordiness of the abilitys means that it loses is elegance.

Streets:- i havent got much to say on this one, its a little bit over the top, but in a good way :S

Majinnecro69:- the flavour doesnt fit the flavour of magic, lus it seems to un like.

Jakey:- personal favourite so far, its elegant and 'pretty' and simple and spot on. although i dont see the relevance of the art.

plaguefather:- i think this one could be mono black and its a bit much power wise, taking out their hand library and graveyard for 7 mana.

B43gr:- my second favourite so far, but the final ability needs to be written ala Chaos moon. and is that last ability really necessary.

Tekkatus:- is that jesus!! with naruto!!

Ubertoten:- so if it gets blocked it becomes a 14/8 with trample. wooooaaahhh bit to much. plus that cancels out his 1 toughness.

fudawg45:- i like it actually although its not the most creative in the world.

and finally kingez36:- the first card i have designed in agggggeeesss that i really like.

[JakeKessler]

Kingez: Yea, I probably need to change the art. It's a holdover from an older version of the card I'd been working on. I guess it depicts a not very nice mage casting some gruesome magic, but I can probably find something better to illustrate the pure agonizing torture I'm trying to represent.

Glad you like the simplicity... I feel like I've been shooting myself in the foot so far with entries that were a little too far outside the box. We'll see if a simpler effect will score higher.

Your card made me giggle. I haven't decided yet if I think it will do well, but it's a neat effect, and I believe you templated it correctly (Doran, the Siege Tower seems like the only relevant thing to compare it to). You should capitalize Beast, though.


Ubertoten:- so if it gets blocked it becomes a 14/8 with trample. wooooaaahhh bit to much. plus that cancels out his 1 toughness.

Only if it's multi-blocked (read Rampage's reminder text again). Boros Recruit stands up to this guy all day long.

[_b4g3r_]

B43gr:- my second favourite so far, but the final ability needs to be written ala Chaos moon. and is that last ability really necessary.



yes, the wording will get some fine tuning...

The last ability is not necessary, but I thought while the land is legendary there would still be use for another copy or two in your hand... great card for 5-color control IMHO :)

[FuDaWg45]

b4g3r - That last ability on your land is probably making it too powerful. The very existence of Life from the Loam and Sylvan Scrying practically breaks it. And I guess you already know that the wording needs tuning.

Kingez - glad you like my card. :) Not super creative, but it hasn't been done before. I like Prolix, nice idea you've got there. :)

[Luthervamplord]

Okay, I ask for it so I might as well give it - Feedback!

@ Cash: Did someone fall off the lazy side of the bed today? It will work and sure is balanced but I know you can come up with much better if you took seven minutes to think about it.

@ Umexx: I like but it feels off; I'm looking at other cards and abilities that do something like this and it seems be work out that 1 Colorless equals 1 Card. If you colored the artifact (I suggest Blue) then I could understand a lower cost.

@ Krakn Slayr: This is too wordy, doesn't fit well into the Magic universe and seems overreached in function. Might I suggest a rehash to something more refrained:

Dice of Fate and Fortune 5UU
Legendary Artifact
You play with your hand revealed.
T: Reveal the top seven cards of an opponent's library and separate those cards into two piles. That player puts one pile into their hand and the other into their graveyard.

Just a suggested path - don't take it as face value as a good submission as I haven't taken time to follow the maths involved. BTW: Fact or Fiction for ref.

@KD: Permanent Cards? Where the hell did you come up with that wording as I can't find a single example of that phrase anywhere in the MTG universe. The correct way to word that would be:

You may reveal any non-instant, non-sorcery cards from among them and put those cards into your hand.

And even then, I'm not a hundred percent sure that entire line works. Otherwise, I love the design.

@Uber_Panda: Too much going on - try to scale back a little.

@Streetz: This is to Incarnations, what Genju of the Realm was to it's cycle - It completes it but just isn't worth it. I'm not sure how to work with that if I'm honest (sorry)

@MajinNecro69: Wording issue. And too busy. Rehash is in order:

Goblin Gambling Den 5RR
Enchantment
2R,T: Name a card type then reveal the top seven cards of your library. Put all cards of the named type into your hand and exile the rest.

Remember that Red does search in a destructive manner unless splashed with another color so think about that when you rework your design.

@ JakeKessler: Can I ask; why these three colors? Red only does this kind of thing to yourself, not others (See Form of the Dragon) and Black only does this to yourself AND to make it so you don't care about life anymore (See Lich) though you could argue Master Sphinx here.

This would work just as well as a Mono-White as White can change anyone's life total (See Blessed Wind) though if you really want to go Gold then Blue and Green are good as wel (See Biorhythm and Sway of the Stars respectively.)

@ Plaguefather: I like the concept but in truth, seems too harsh. Might I suggest you rework the card to work against all players and only affect Permanents?

@_b4g3r_: Doesn't need Grandeur - Otherwise I like it; but I'm a Land-nut so I'm biased.

@Tekk: It works; but again I'm biased

@Earthblast Wurm: See Gorilla Beserkers to see where you went wrong. But like the design concept just needs tweaking; I suggest 4/1 base instead.

@FuDaWg45: Excellent design, but like King says it doesn't show your more creative side off well. See my advice to Cashew.

@Kingez36: I don't get why you took Doran's ability and twisted it this way - Why not simply assign their actual stat instead. But then, this way you ignore pump and shrink so I guess it works.

[Tekkactus]

New entry. It's far superior to my lame MDV pun.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@KD: Permanent Cards? Where the hell did you come up with that wording as I can't find a single example of that phrase anywhere in the MTG universe.

Nature's Spiral

[uber_panda]

New entry. It's far superior to my lame MDV pun.

Yeah, but it was really punny.

(Please tell me you got that)

[death by aggro]

I'm back from a trip to a friends. Man, this contest area has filled up fast, and I can see why; finally, a theme I can really sink my teeth into. This is gonna be a fun month for me:).

[Plaguefather]

I am not hearing one comparison to the card i was trying to reference. Worldgorger Dragon. it was powerful, and i was trying to make something similar to that. And by removing their hand, graveyard, and library from the game then giving them the ability to search through those cards AND their sideboard for 7 cards to create a win condition, is broken? It give me a 7/7 beater, sure, but it give them the ability to wish x 7? Putting me at a huge disadvantage. aND HELLO, Mirror of Fate!!!!!! look at it! it's perfect it you go down to one card in library and you play that, its like getting the ability to wish x7 again!

[JakeKessler]

Permanent Cards? Where the hell did you come up with that wording as I can't find a single example of that phrase anywhere in the MTG universe.

Wargate, Nature's Spiral, and about 40 others: http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[%22permanent%20card%22]||text=+[%22permanent%20card%22]


@ JakeKessler: Can I ask; why these three colors? Red only does this kind of thing to yourself, not others (See Form of the Dragon) and Black only does this to yourself AND to make it so you don't care about life anymore (See Lich) though you could argue Master Sphinx here.

This would work just as well as a Mono-White as White can change anyone's life total (See Blessed Wind) though if you really want to go Gold then Blue and Green are good as wel (See Biorhythm and Sway of the Stars respectively.)

It's either going to be life gain or life loss; white can make people gain life, red can make people lose life, black can do both. It seems like this can be flavored for any color or colors as long as you get the flavor right; blue and green don't normally deal with life totals, but then there's Biorhythm and Sway of the Stars, like you say. I am flavoring this torturing people and putting them into a depressed madness, so, black and red seemed appropriate.

[Tekkactus]

http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=+[%22permanent%20card%22]||text=+[%22permanent%20card%22]

Luther, consider thyneself "owned".

[Stuffy Doll]

my cards been updated...almost everything about it has been rehashed...except the flavor text, i love the phrase too much and its too perfect for this contest to touch.

[death by aggro]

@ Krakn: Generally, real-life references in Magic are no-nos, not to mention this card just gives Tinker all the more reason to be broken. Actually, you're card is pretty broken on its own; play Craps, get Time Stretch and another Craps, using the two extra turns get out the other Craps, use the new Craps to get Time Stretch and yet another Craps, eventually drop a generic game-ender (probably through the first Craps) and proceed to beateth much faceth. Also, throw in Reito Lantern for an infinite turn combo where you only needed to actually pay for one card; either seven mana for Craps or three for Tinker. Definetely needs working on imo.

In other news, my card is up. I think it's ok as a legendary creature, but what do you all think of mythic rare status? Side note: this has got to be my favorite art I've found for a card, save maybe one other I'm saving for a rainy day.

[MajinNecro69]

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showpost.php?p=302516&postcount=8
Edited entry.

[JakeKessler]

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showpost.php?p=302516&postcount=8
Edited entry.

Slight wording issues. You want to say:

:r::r::r:, :tap:, Discard your hand: Draw seven cards. Then you may discard a Goblin card. If you do, CARDNAME deals damage equal to that card's converted mana cost to target creature or player. Otherwise, discard your hand.

Other things:

I know the theme is seven, but seven mana is a lot. I honestly think this card is underpowered. The costs for the ability are appropriately steep, since it's card draw in red PLUS the possibility of burn. Just remember you can't activate the ability the turn you play it with any less than :6mana::r::r::r::r: total available to you.

The huge pricetag is even more unwieldy if you think this should be played in a tribal Goblin deck, which is typically rather low on the mana curve. I'm also not sure you want to go the colored-artifact route. I'd be shy about connecting this to Alara like that, since I don't remember Alara having slot machines.

All things considered, I put the appropriate cost of the artifact itself at :4mana:. That would allow you to go off for a total of :4mana::r::r::r: (another 7 for the contest), either all at once on turn seven or split over turns four and five.

(You could make it really perfect for the contest by making the artifact cost :3mana: and the ability cost :3mana::r:, because then it goes off either on turn seven or split between turns three and four, which add up to seven.)


http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo21/LokentaMirana/SeventhHeavenClean.jpg

This is a nifty little card. Kind of a niche effect, solid but not overpowered. I think you could even get away with it for :w::u:.

[Le_Mirage]

Done.

Mark of the Beginning - :3mana::managu::managu:
Sorcery

If your life total is 20 and you have 7 cards in your hand, you win the game.


...my only doubt is the manacost. It may be too easy for a green or/and blue deck to rush to five mana and seven cards before the opponent has a change to do some damage? Against a red or a reasonable fast creatures deck, surely not. Still, maybe :4mana::managu::managu: would be better.

Anyway, it's a hybrid mainly for a Vorthos-designed standpoint, as both blue and green are color of "go back in time". Blue for time manipulation, and green for the "back to the origin" flavor.

...there are a lot of interesting cards this month! The ones i like more are Hex + 1 of Cashew (:D), Craps of Krakn Slayr, Mana flow of b4g3r, Turbo Gambler of Tekkactus, Nadirok of death_by_aggro and Earthblast Wurn of Ubertoten.

[JakeKessler]

I had been editing my last post to talk about your card Mirage, but I guess I'll just post again. =)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/Le_Mirage/MarkoftheBeginning.jpg

I like the condition. It's pretty powerful, and there are a few engines around that could win with it turn 1. You might make it a little harder to go off early like that by making it gold rather than hybrid... or even better, up the cost to seven. I think either :3mana::g::u: or :5mana::managu::managu: would be appropriate mana costs for the effect.

[Le_Mirage]

I had been editing my last post to talk about your card Mirage, but I guess I'll just post again. =)


I like the condition. It's pretty powerful, and there are a few engines around that could win with it turn 1. You might make it a little harder to go off early like that by making it gold rather than hybrid... or even better, up the cost to seven. I think either :3mana::g::u: or :5mana::managu::managu: would be appropriate mana costs for the effect.

Me too then :D

If it would be strictly easier than every other possible-turn 1 card win, than it must be broken. Otherwise it should be fine. I agree on the manacost. And technically...right, it should be gold but...i wrote it on my last post:)

As for your card...i feel that it would be more interesting as an all-players effect. That way, it would be of use even in a dying (or suicide-deck :) ) situation instead of a being just aggressive, and the white mana would be more justified.

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

Mine's up. Well, the cheezy storybook fantasy jank placeholding for my real entry later in the month is up. Comments welcome.

[p-chan]

Feeeeedbaaaaaaack!!!!!

@UberPanda: Ability copying is blue's domain, not green's. I would make your card gold.

@Jake: Great job! Your brains must be smoking after thinking about so many "sevens" XD. In any case, being 3-colored, maybe it's a little too overcosted ... but if you fix it you would lose a "seven" XD

@Plaguefather: You have a big wording issue. To properly work, your card should say:
"When ~enters the battlefield, exile all cards in target opponent's hand, library and graveyard. Then, that player may choose up to seven cards he or she owns from the exile zone, and shuffle them into his or her library."
Also, maybe it's a little overpowered, but not much. If you animate it and use any milling card, you would win for sure, but that's a combo, and cards aren't overpowered for being part of a combo ...

@Ubertoten: If you use rampage, an old ability, I would use the old card frame.

@GGCrono: Change your art! Now!:p

@Lokenta: I can't see the relationship between the seventh heaven and the effect of your card XP

Also, my card is up. There are two entries, one real and one a fake ... guess wich is wich? XD

[JakeKessler]

@Plaguefather: You have a big wording issue. To properly work, your card should say:
"When ~enters the battlefield, exile all cards in target opponent's hand, library and graveyard. Then, that player may choose up to seven cards he or she owns from the exile zone, and shuffle them into his or her library."

He doesn't mean the exile zone, he means the player's collection or sideboard, like with the Wishes (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&name=+[%22wish%22]&type=+[%22Sorcery%22]). "Cards you own from outside the game" is the correct way to word this.

[Tekkactus]

I'm surprised that DBA is the first person to remember Threshold exists. Derp.

[JakeKessler]

Yea, but I'd shy away from it unless you had plenty of other seven support. Last month was about free casting and I got docked points for using suspend.

[death by aggro]

I'm surprised that DBA is the first person to remember Threshold exists. Derp.

I am as well, though I obviously don't mind making everyone else feel silly:P. Despite his propensity towards Blue cards, I'm liking Le Mirage's designs the more I see them. We may just have true competitor material here to worry about.

[Plaguefather]

lolz, i was just thinking of adding a clause to my card.

"If ~ enters the battlefield from anywhere but your hand, exile your hand, library, and graveyard, then choose seven of those cards and shuffle them into your library."

lolz, like reverse but worse for you if you reanimate him.

@ p-chan, I like your feedback, but would he be overpowered alone if i added the above clause?

[Kamahl's Disciple]

More reviews: -

@DbA: - You impress me once more with this month's entry, I don't think it needs to be a mythic rare, this can be a rare easily and I can even see it costing :2mana::b:.

@Lokenta: - Like someone said before, I can see this costing :w::u:. Other then that, I don't think you need to change a thing, pretty awesome card you have here.

@Le Mirage: - Even if green deals with a lot of life gaining effects, I see this more as a :manawu: hybrid because white is more about designating or dealing with life totals then green does. Other then that, it should be fine.

@PRAM: - ... No sir, I don't like it.

@p-chan: - The Seventh Day's first ability is very green, if I where you, I would make this multicolored. A CMC of :4mana::g::g::w: or :3mana::g::g::w::w: should be good.

[ALEX Ryugami]

Okay, this is my current submission, what do you think guys??

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/Witstone.jpg

[JakeKessler]

That's really good, Alex. Really impressive design. Just make sure you say "in his or her hand" rather than "on his or her hand". Unless you're talking about Volrath's Motion Sensors, of course.

[Le_Mirage]

@DbA: - You impress me once more with this month's entry, I don't think it needs to be a mythic rare, this can be a rare easily and I can even see it costing :2mana::b:.

@Le Mirage: - Even if green deals with a lot of life gaining effects, I see this more as a :manawu: hybrid because white is more about designating or dealing with life totals then green does. Other then that, it should be fine.

@p-chan: - The Seventh Day's first ability is very green, if I where you, I would make this multicolored. A CMC of :4mana::g::g::w: or :3mana::g::g::w::w: should be good.

Right. But my card is green (as blue) as it's flavor is to find victory by "go back" to the starting hand and life setup of every standard match ever played (including, of course, the winning ones:)). "Return to the origin" is a thematic that green shares with blue ("go back in time").

I think that the same may hold for Seventh Day. A card that is based upon the mytic creation of the world can be rightly considered more white than green, cause it's flavored more on deity than nature.

...DbA card is cool. The synergy between the first ability and thresold, even if it acts as a drawback, is really elegant.

[JakeKessler]

Right. But my card is green (as blue) as it's flavor is to find victory by "go back" to the starting hand and life setup of every standard match ever played (including, of course, the winning ones:)). "Return to the origin" is a thematic that green shares with blue ("go back in time").

I think that the same may hold for Seventh Day. A card that is based upon the mytic creation of the world can be rightly considered more white than green, cause it's flavored more on deity than nature.

Actually, the flavor you describe sounds a lot more white than blue (although I buy it in green somewhat). White gets Blessed Wind and Arbiter of Knollridge, not to mention Balance and all its derivatives (of which there are quite a few). I can see where both you and KD are coming from, but my recommendation for this card's color is :managw:.

I am even more convinced when I factor in (like you say) the religious connotations of the Seventh Day (as it pertains both to creation and to the Sabbath). While creation (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=51613) may feel like a green endeavor, religion (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=83338) in Magic is almost always flavored white.

Blue, by contrast, is not really concerned with returning to the natural state at all. The blue mage wants to improve (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=179252) upon the base state, always moving forward (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=29714), never back. He wants to learn all there is to know about the world, study and catalog (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=9852) everything, and then control (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=189876) it. Returning (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109751) the world to a natural, pre-civilized state would terrify a blue mage.

[Le_Mirage]

Actually, the flavor you describe sounds a lot more white than blue (although I buy it in green somewhat). White gets Blessed Wind and Arbiter of Knollridge, not to mention Balance and all its derivatives (of which there are quite a few). I can see where both you and KD are coming from, but my recommendation for this card's color is :managw:.

The cards you mention (apart from Balance) deals with the main life gaining mechanic of white on the first place, and not mainly on a flavor basis. We may say, white deals with life as a "force of the present" that is always right, while the real renewal, and life-death cycle flavor (force that comes from the past and from time repeating itself) is green.
Balance, as well as Wrath, Armageddon and the like, is another matter. It's flavored around the equity, the justice and the peace that someone believes (Gods in the first place, i think :)) total and mutual destruction may bring.



Blue, by contrast, is not really concerned with returning to the natural state at all. The blue mage wants to improve upon the base state, always moving forward, never back. He wants to learn all there is to know about the world, study and catalog everything, and then control it. Returning the world to a natural, pre-civilized state would terrify a blue mage.

Mainly (and from a "wizard" prospective) yes, but blue has it's good deal or "reset" effects, like Sway of the Stars and Temporal Cascade. They flavored time manipulation. That's even more clear considering recycle effects. Though is a mechanic common to both colors, blue has more global recycle effects (shuffle graveyard into library) that symbolize memory and time as a whole, while green has more selective ones (Recollect), that symbolize the selectivity of nature.

[JakeKessler]

On the contrary, shuffling a graveyard back into a library is green, not blue. Gaea's Blessing, Riftsweeper, Loaming Shaman, Primal Command... there's a ton of them.

In the grand scheme of Magic cards, there are far more white cards that return the game state to the way it was at the opening of the game (full life, few permanents in play) than blue cards that do so. Those are the mechanics. Green gets regrowth and recovery. Blue gets some stall tactics, true, but they hardly measure up. And when it comes to flavor, the drive to regress rather than progress is far more red, green and white than it is blue. Look at which colors build artifacts and which colors destroy them. Look at which color draws the most cards and penetrates the furthest into its library, and which colors shuffle things back in.

[Le_Mirage]

On the contrary, shuffling a graveyard back into a library is green, not blue. Gaea's Blessing, Riftsweeper, Loaming Shaman, Primal Command... there's a ton of them.

The first three cards all are selective, or allow selectivity to some degree. See Krosan Reclamation too.

Blue has Mnemonic Nexus and Reminisce, instead .


And when it comes to flavor, the drive to regress rather than progress is far more red, green and white than it is blue.

Regress from present to future, yes (green by renewal, red by destruction, white by re-empowering...or destruction as well). But when we are talking about coming back to a certain spot in time, than it's blue.

[JakeKessler]

I think if you were concepting your card something technological or otherwise related to advanced magical technique, blue would be the way to go. But simply by calling it Seventh Day you're invoking a sense of stripping away the unnatural developments people like the blue mage have come up with to get back to something natural, original, and divinely rendered. All of that says white-green.

[Le_Mirage]

I think if you were concepting your card something technological or otherwise related to advanced magical technique, blue would be the way to go. But simply by calling it Seventh Day you're invoking a sense of stripping away the unnatural developments people like the blue mage have come up with to get back to something natural, original, and divinely rendered. All of that says white-green.

Seventh Day is not my card :). All i have wrote refers to the reason my card is a green/blue hybrid.

On your last thing i'am not so sure anyway. The act of a god, even if is a creation act...is just white. It symbolize the direct will of a higher being, not the rules and the way of nature.
It can be more clear by examining the destruction side: Armageddon is white, not white/green...cause the world, just as it cannot create itself, i can't even destroy itself. You need a god or the like for both.

...another matter is if, years back, if hybrid cards already existed, someone may have wonder is Armageddon may be green/white or maybe even red/white. We'll never know it :). Sure, now, it cames more natural to imagine a cards as a possible hybrid.
But the distinction, after all, is not so strict.

[JakeKessler]

Seventh Day is not my card :)

/facepalm

Well. That makes the whole thing a great deal more negotiable. For some reason I got it in my head Seventh Day is what you were calling your reset button. No wonder we couldn't convince each other!

Yes, your card has vague enough flavor that I could see it being any legitimate mix of blue, green or white. I will say that however you end up concepting it, see if you can nail down some more specific flavor. "Mark of the Beginning" seems a little off, and I honestly don't know what that art is supposed to be depicting.

Not even called Seventh Day... Lol...


The act of a god, even if is a creation act...is just white. It symbolize the direct will of a higher being, not the rules and the way of nature.

In Magic at least, the concept of Creation seems be flavored towards green; Beacon of Creation, Genesis. Then again, being multiversal epic fantasy, Magic tends to shy away from any kind of Judeo-Christian-esque creation story attributing Creation to the will of a singular deity. Even though religion is presented through White creatures and spells, rarely if ever is that religion connected in the game to the origins of the various worlds. Even token creation--something white and green share--is usually concepted as calling for reinforcements in white while green is actually creating new (wild)life.

Perhaps if Wizards decided to adopt a more Judeo-Christian-influenced track for their storylines, white would get its hand in the Creation flavor pie. For the time being, though, green seems to get it largely to itself.

[Le_Mirage]

Yes, your card has vague enough flavor that I could see it being any legitimate mix of blue, green or white. I will say that however you end up concepting it, see if you can nail down some more specific flavor. "Mark of the Beginning" seems a little off, and I honestly don't know what that art is supposed to be depicting.



The art is (shakly)in line with the flavor text: a character dreaming (or just imagining) a past than contain a victory. Is a "Mark" cause, as a spell, it use a spot in the past (a victory) as a lever to "force" the same outcome in the present.

By Recreate the initial setup of the past (apart from library and graveyard...that would be far more complicate :)) you make the magic go and reach victory again :cool:...but apart from the flavor, i liked the idea of an alternative victory condition...that is just the initial life/hand setup, with the difference that keep it for the time needed to find/cast the spell would probably not that easy (not always at least):D.

...maybe i will add some explanation to the submission topic....if i don't find/think better in the meanwhile.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@Akashmar: - This card is more broken then Time Spiral. DO NOT WANT.

[akashmar]

@Akashmar: - This card is more broken then Time Spiral. DO NOT WANT.
I love broken :)

[Tekkactus]

Okay, this is my current submission, what do you think guys??

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/Witstone.jpg

Personally, I would word it ":0mana:: Witstone deals 2 damage to target creature or player. Any player may activate this ability but only once each turn and only if he or she have exactly seven cards in his or her hand."

It changes it from a triggered to an activated ability, but otherwise its the same and is a lot clearer.

[JakeKessler]

Personally, I would word it ":0mana:: Witstone deals 2 damage to target creature or player. Any player may activate this ability but only once each turn and only if he or she have exactly seven cards in his or her hand."

It changes it from a triggered to an activated ability, but otherwise its the same and is a lot clearer.

You know, I hadn't thought about it, but leaving it as a triggered ability actually presents a rules problem. Every time state-based effects are checked, a new instance of the trigger will be put on the stack. You will end up with an infinite number of triggers, none of which will ever resolve because there will always be more triggering on top of them. According to the CompRules for infinite loops, the game will end in a draw.

Changing the wording to be an activation re: Tekkactus' suggestion fixes this entirely, and the "once per turn" requirement makes it appropriately limited.

[Luthervamplord]

Luther, consider thyneself "owned".

First off "Thy-self" - If you intend to diss me in my countries own language get it right first. "Thine" refers to owning something, usually a personal trait or a person "Thine own failing" or "Thine own son doth judge me so".

Secondly; I state again - I hate this new wording system. But fair point; both on wording of Permanent Card and your color tastes Jake - Just trying to understanding it.

On a side note; any comments on my submission?

[Stuffy Doll]

@ Krakn: Generally, real-life references in Magic are no-nos, not to mention this card just gives Tinker all the more reason to be broken. Actually, you're card is pretty broken on its own; play Craps, get Time Stretch and another Craps, using the two extra turns get out the other Craps, use the new Craps to get Time Stretch and yet another Craps, eventually drop a generic game-ender (probably through the first Craps) and proceed to beateth much faceth. Also, throw in Reito Lantern for an infinite turn combo where you only needed to actually pay for one card; either seven mana for Craps or three for Tinker. Definetely needs working on imo.

In other news, my card is up. I think it's ok as a legendary creature, but what do you all think of mythic rare status? Side note: this has got to be my favorite art I've found for a card, save maybe one other I'm saving for a rainy day.

wow, never noticed XD i thought it was a simple free-counterspell-at-any-time, i never even thought about those more powerful cards, but i apreciate the input and will make some serious changes now that ive seen wat it can do.

[ALEX Ryugami]

Personally, I would word it ":0mana:: Witstone deals 2 damage to target creature or player. Any player may activate this ability but only once each turn and only if he or she have exactly seven cards in his or her hand."

It changes it from a triggered to an activated ability, but otherwise its the same and is a lot clearer.


You know, I hadn't thought about it, but leaving it as a triggered ability actually presents a rules problem. Every time state-based effects are checked, a new instance of the trigger will be put on the stack. You will end up with an infinite number of triggers, none of which will ever resolve because there will always be more triggering on top of them. According to the CompRules for infinite loops, the game will end in a draw.

Changing the wording to be an activation re: Tekkactus' suggestion fixes this entirely, and the "once per turn" requirement makes it appropriately limited.

Good point that I haven't think of when I made this card at first. I modified it slightly from Tekk's wording but remove the "only once per turn" clause since if both player have seven cards on his or her hand, the first player who activate this (probably the active player) is the only one who can activate it on the current turn. And I rise the activation's cost to :3mana: and reducing the mana cost to :1mana: since it would be too good if it activates for no cost other than the number of cards in the hand only. So Witstone is looked like this: http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/Witstone.jpg

[JakeKessler]

Good point that I haven't think of when I made this card at first. I modified it slightly from Tekk's wording but remove the "only once per turn" clause since if both player have seven cards on his or her hand, the first player who activate this (probably the active player) is the only one who can activate it on the current turn. And I rise the activation's cost to :3mana: and reducing the mana cost to :1mana: since it would be too good if it activates for no cost other than the number of cards in the hand only. So Witstone is looked like this: http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/Witstone.jpg

A few things.

1. If it said, "Any player may activate this ability once per turn," I think that would allow people to activate it during the same turn, one time each; but I admit it would be a little ambiguous for a player reading the card. An alternative wording that is slightly longer but much more clear and has the same effect would be:

Any player may activate this ability. Each player may only activate this ability once per turn.

2. Without that, a person with 7 cards in hand can activate it repeatedly all at once, assuming they have enough mana. Changing the activation to :3mana: rather than :0mana: helps limit this, but it can still be done. You have to decided whether you want this to be multiplicable or not.

3. Rather than change it from a requirement for activation, you might attach the cards-in-hand requirement to the damage itself, similar to how the Mistveil Plains cycle word their abilities:

:3mana:: If you have exactly seven cards in your hand, Witstone deals 2 damage to target creature or player. Any player may activate this ability.

In this model, "you" becomes the player who activates the ability, not the controller of Witstone. See: Lethal Vapors.

[George G]

Hey Jake or anyone, anyone think of a way to make my last ability less wordy but function the same? I looked at all the scarecrows and they seperate all the "as long as" abilities into different sentences. So the way I worded it I know it's legal, but can I somehow combine the "as long as" crap into one line? I don't think so because "harbin has flying as long as you control an ornithopter and first strike as long as you control an avenger" could read you need an avenger for both....i dunno.

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/UrzaChiefArtificer-1.jpg

[JakeKessler]

Why not something like this:

Put a 5/5 legendary white Human creature token named Harbin onto the battlefield. It has "Harbin has flying as long as you contol a creature with flying. The same is true for first strike."

On an unrelated note, that's a really narrow and underpowered Planeswalker. There's also no reason for it to be :r::g::w:, and really really no reason it has anything to do with Urza.

Finally, you should be aware that Ornithopter is not in fact a creature type. The creature Ornithopter is a Thopter type.

[Plaguefather]

i thought urza was :u::b::r: aligned? :getdown:

[JakeKessler]

I think Urza is such a prolific character in Magic that you could make a strong case for him being :w::u::b::r::g:. Certainly he has appeared or been referenced on cards of every color.

In this kind of contest though I think he's poison. You can break your mental back trying to make a flavorful Urza adaptation, and you'll still score poorly because that's not the focus of this month. And adding a bunch of sevens to something like Urza will detract, not improve.

[Tekkactus]

i thought urza was :u::b::r: aligned? :getdown:

You're wrong?

Urza was mono:u:, and you could potentially make a case for :r: or :w:. There's nothing black about him.

[Plaguefather]

:feedback:

any more thoughts if i add the "happens to you if you cheat him in" clause?

[JakeKessler]

You're wrong?

Urza was mono:u:, and you could potentially make a case for :r: or :w:. There's nothing black about him.

You know, except for that part where he completely gives into Yawgmoth's argument about machines being the perfect form of existence and the necessity of killing all organic life, and shoots Gerrard with Death Grasp. And earlier, when he was a self-obsessed despot who waged a merciless war against his brother that decimated entire landscapes.

http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=25918&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=23087&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=2070&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=6076&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=26836&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=10408&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3817&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=23006&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=24117&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=25323&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=109718&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=29415&type=card

There is no color that doesn't have Urza represented on a card somewhere, honestly. This is because old-school planeswalkers weren't flavor in terms of colors; they were above the mana balance. The way wizards handled planeswalker characters completely changed when they made them a card type.

If Wizards ever did make an Urza card, it would have strong flavor in every individual color except green... and at that point they'd probably make him :w::u::b::r::g: to fit the five-color theme Urza is also assoc'd with.


:feedback:

any more thoughts if i add the "happens to you if you cheat him in" clause?

He's still busted hard-cast. Who cares if you cheat him in?

[ALEX Ryugami]

@JakeKessler: Thanks Jake for the wording suggestion. :) I chose the 2nd since it's better than the first.

[p-chan]

@ p-chan, I like your feedback, but would he be overpowered alone if i added the above clause?
Nah, not at all. On a second tought, I think it's not overpowered at all; powerfull, yes, but hell, I think Akroma, angel of wrath is far more powerful (she lets you only 4 turns :P)
Also, as a side note, you're making a dragos, but in the flavour text you mention the bilical creation of the world. In the bible there were no dragons ... maybe an angel would fit better (there were 7 angels in the biblical Armaggeddon)

@Le Mirage: I must say that I see this card more white than blue. Why? I don't know, but ... well, blue likes changes, not the natural state of beings; maybe that's why.

@Luther: I think it's quite uderpowered, as he would die to his own ability. I would add regeneration.

[JakeKessler]

@Le Mirage: I must say that I see this card more white than blue. Why? I don't know, but ... well, blue likes changes, not the natural state of beings; maybe that's why.

That.

[Le_Mirage]

@Le Mirage: I must say that I see this card more white than blue. Why? I don't know, but ... well, blue likes changes, not the natural state of beings; maybe that's why.



I don't think that the way you choose colors for your birthday card is so different by the way i choose colors from mine :). After all, both their flavors are a event of the past that has some point in being brought to the present.

I really liked them both, anyway. Seventh Day would be able to set in motion terrific maybe-broken-but-cool combos (i immediatly think about Conspiracy (or course), Fatespinner (for let the opponent enjoy his extra turn a little less :)) and lot of others...).

[Le_Mirage]

That.

Blue don't like the natural state of things, but a card that is flavored around past is it's territory too.

White, on the other hand, like the natural state of things mainly for the fact that is supposed to be the work of a deity...a work done to excert it's control to it on the basis of some higher order (that is sometime just, sometime fanatic), too.

[Luthervamplord]

@ p-chan: Thanks for taking time to comment. I kind of agree with you and will probably make the change - how does 1B for the regen ability cost sound?

[death by aggro]

@ p-chan: Thanks for taking time to comment. I kind of agree with you and will probably make the change - how does 1B for the regen ability cost sound?

I think it would be more flavorful (and balancing) to make it a "pay X life" clause. I mean, how else does one trapped deep in the underworld pay for things other than pain? On another note, the art is fantastic. You could probably make it a little less color intense as well, but that one's more a personal call.

[Tekkactus]

http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=25918&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=23087&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=2070&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=6076&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=26836&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=10408&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3817&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=23006&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=24117&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=25323&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=109718&type=card http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=29415&type=card

Of the three black cards that appear there, 2 of them are shown being cast on Urza, not by him, and the other, Death Grasp, takes place while Urza has already been brainwashed by Yawgmoth. You yourself said green doesn't fit, so that leaves...

GASP!

[Le_Mirage]

We may say that Blue is the "main" color of wizards, time/plane walkers and the like. Red is more likely to be second, as the color or everyone able of kick ass with lightnings and the like...or of everyone able to manipulate powerful and dangerous energies, maybe to build artifact with too (...both things that the most expects from a wizard).

White and black are the main "moral" color. So, if Urza is "good", white can be appropriate (even for his big ambitions of control). Black is the color of necromancy and the most grimy dirty death spells, that it may or may not (but not for me) tiled with the more former "lightning and fireball" mage.

Green sounds like the least classic color for a mage. It's more elves and druids stuff. Even the creature evocation flavor of a mage can be accounted like the stuff of "calling creatures from other places and time", more than something related strictly on nature.

...therefore yes, i think that a powerful but good mage would probably be colored blue, red and white.

I agree, anyway, that is can be fine for the most important flavor things in magic to be colored with all five colors, if a card is to be make out of them. Just to enforce their nature of symbols of the whole game.

[Luthervamplord]

I think it would be more flavorful (and balancing) to make it a "pay X life" clause. I mean, how else does one trapped deep in the underworld pay for things other than pain? On another note, the art is fantastic. You could probably make it a little less color intense as well, but that one's more a personal call.

Now that's a good argument - I like it. And thanks for compliment on artwork choice; I wanted to go more penciled old-school this time around and found a great artist over at Elfwood.

Okay, working on the idea that I'm looking for a life equivalent of 2-mana and that Vesper Ghoul suggests that to get one mana of any color I need 1 life and a tap; how does "Pay 3 Life: Regenerate ~." sound?

[death by aggro]

Okay, working on the idea that I'm looking for a life equivalent of 2-mana and that Vesper Ghoul suggests that to get one mana of any color I need 1 life and a tap; how does "Pay 3 Life: Regenerate ~." sound?

Three life sounds just about right for something under the "bomb-rare" category that your card certainly falls into. It should be fine.

[George G]

Ok, here's my case, there are two versions of Ajani. This version of Urza is when he became Chief Artificer of Kroog by marrying princess Kayla, and all he did day and night was redesign ornithopters. It's an incredibly weak Urza because it was a boring point in his life, other than fathering his son. Since this was "birthday" month, it felt appropriate. Also, it's a planeswalker that can use the big ability on the turn it comes into play. I gave Harbin those abilities because he was a thopter pilot and fought alongside the avengers.

I agree with Jake that Urza has represented all colors, but at different times. Later Urza would have more blue/black.

Also Jake, thanks for the wording, I'll use it!

[JakeKessler]

White and black are the main "moral" color. So, if Urza is "good", white can be appropriate (even for his big ambitions of control). Black is the color of necromancy and the most grimy dirty death spells, that it may or may not (but not for me) tiled with the more former "lightning and fireball" mage.

This is the misconception about Urza: he is NOT a "good" guy, not in the traditional sense of morality. Prior to becoming a planeswalker, his main obsession (after artifice) was conquest (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=retaliation). He engaged in a massive war for the conquest of Dominaria against his own (equally despotic) brother Mishra, a war which left many regions devastated (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=strip mine). Urza and Mishra were each aggressors in this situation, tyrants who bent the rest of the world to their will.

After his spark went off, Urza became aware of the Phyrexian threat. His decision to oppose them, however, came less from some whitish desire to protect the people of Dominaria and the rest of the multiverse: Dominaria was Urza's home. Just as he had in his war with Mishra, Urza now faced off against Yawgmoth, another (greater or equal) self-serving tyrant. As their war now lasted millennia and spanned whole planes rather than continents, the fates of Dominaria's other natives became inexorably tied up with Urza's; whatever would befall them if Urza triumphed, it would be worse if Urza lost.

Even against the Phyrexian threat, Urza was never really a "good" guy; he was simply the lesser of two evils. He never saw his allies (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=recover) as friends, only (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=coalition victory) as tools (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urza's incubator) for keeping his home plane secure. He devised contingency after contingency, ready to deal with (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=confound) his own allies if need be at the first sign of dissent. He was forever controlling, manipulative, and unilateral in deciding what was "best" for Dominaria's defense.

Urza has always had a brutal talent for destruction (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=void), either the decimation of those he deems his enemies (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urza's rage) or simply the collateral damage of those foolish enough to be his allies. His reckless experiments with time utterly obliterated the Tolarian Academy, killing thousands of wizards. On Serra's realm, he collapsed (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=) an entirely artificial plane and all the inhabitants who refused to leave into a singularity he then used to power the skyship, Weatherlight. His solution to a deficiency of powerful troops for the war was a regulated breeding program that lasted generations and ultimately produced the ultimate warrior, Gerrard--a concept that we would find incredibly immoral if it were instituted by own government in our world.

Then, when the invasion finally came and Urza confronted Yawgmoth, he actually became convinced of Yawgmoth's vision (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=warped devotion) of eradicating all organic life. Throwing aside all the plans he had made for Dominaria's defense, he joined Yawgmoth's side, dueling (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyrexian arena) and destroying (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=death grasp) his own would-be champion Gerrard for Yawgmoth's enjoyment.

In all things, at all times, Urza showed a selfish disregard for anything he didn't immediately consider important. Worlds, people, and timelines ostensibly under his protection always suffered whenever Urza decided something else was more important than their safety. Because of this reckless selfishness, he is definitely black-red before he is anything else. Because he has always been a talented mage and master planner, blue is also a good fit for Urza.

It is true, he has at times demonstrated white's tenacity in defense, especially of himself and his home; but he lacks white's commitment to others or to any kind of absolute morality. Urza is a perpetually amoral (if not immoral) character, and the occasional good he does is always undermined by collateral damage, recklessness and selfishness.

It is clear to me from this that Urza best fits with :r:, :b: and :u:, probably in that order. This makes him very much like his brother Mishra (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mishra, artificer prodigy). However, it is worth taking into account the details of Urza's "death".

When Urza died, his identity (and the identities of several others present) were subsumed within the body of the silver golem, Karn (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=karn, silver golem). When this occurred, Urza's planeswalker spark was also transferred to Karn, making the golem a planeswalker. What this means is that, rather than create an Urza planeswalker card, Wizards would probably make a Karn planeswalker card instead.

Urza's personality still lies within Karn's conscious, competing with other voices to influence the golem's actions. In this form, Karn has remained a singularly altruistic, pacifistic and protective character in all the ways that Urza failed to be. Karn intervened in the near-second-apocalypse brought on by the false god Karona, and he took the ticking bomb that was the Mirari and built it into a brand new plane, Argentum. Though Karn wandered and Argentum became corrupt in his absence, he eventually returned to set it right. In the Time Spiral arc, Karn returned to Dominaria to aid Teferi in sealing the time rifts, and the golem (by all appearances) sacrificed himself by merging with a time rift linking to the ancient past.

If we accept these deeds and personality traits as something influenced by Urza, we start to see more of an argument for white and even green. Urza-Karn is protective, pacifistic and self-sacrificing, and committed more than anything to the safe and peaceful coexistence of all peoples and races. Given this, and given Wizards' focus during Invasion block on the coalition and Urza's plans for repelling the invasion (rather than on Urza's incredibly flawed personality), it wouldn't surprise me if they one day printed a :w::u::b::r::g: Urza or Urza-Karn card. (Then again, a card of Karn as a planeswalker would probably just end up being :w::u:.)

Speculation about Urza-Karn aside, if we are focusing on the personality of Urza alone during his lifetime as a mortal conqueror and then as an immortal planeswalker, up through his death and not beyond, then his best color alignment probably remains :u::b::r: (or more accurately, :r::b::u:).

[Le_Mirage]

My only doubt is that, just as there are more clear good (white) character in magic than Urza, there are more clear (black) villains too.

Anyway, white are black are not suppose to be "extremist" color, they just reflect an attitude towards reality. While a wannabe emperor, one that think himself above everything, but not a mere villain or destroyer, could be tiled with the wrong side of white, the same do not hold for one who just follow his whim, from a more scheming and egomaniac point (blue).

So, yes, blue black and red will do.

[JakeKessler]

Anyway, the fact remains that this card (http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=302932&postcount=26) has nothing to do with Urza. Whoops! See below.

edit

@ Artifactor (http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showthread.php?p=303121#post303121):

Wording first: "enters the battlefield," not "comes into play"; "as long as CARDNAME has any restrain counters on it"; and there shouldn't be a period after "flying".

As for the last ability, "as a result of combat" doesn't really have any meaning. Do you mean if it happens during combat? Or if its dealt lethal combat damage? I think "lethal combat damage" is technically a correct phrase, even if its never been used before. It might be easier just to say "during combat", though.

I'm confused by the art though. That dragon must be a baby, it's no bigger than the human skull it's standing on. How can it possibly by 9/7? Adjust the stats, or find better art.

edit edit


Ok, here's my case, there are two versions of Ajani. This version of Urza is when he became Chief Artificer of Kroog by marrying princess Kayla, and all he did day and night was redesign ornithopters.

Sorry, I somehow missed this comment until now! That's an interesting idea, doing a card of a young Urza. The colors are still off, though; :r::g::w: doesn't reflect the abilities you gave it.

Also it's worth pointing out that Urza WASN'T a planeswalker at that point in his life. He became a planeswalker after confronting his brother in the Argoth forest at the end of the Brothers' War. There may be two versions of Ajani, but they both reflect the character after he already was a planeswalker.

[Artifactor]

Anyway, the fact remains that this card (http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=302932&postcount=26) has nothing to do with Urza.

edit

@ Artifactor (http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showthread.php?p=303121#post303121):

Wording first: "enters the battlefield," not "comes into play"; "as long as CARDNAME has any restrain counters on it"; and there shouldn't be a period after "flying".

As for the last ability, "as a result of combat" doesn't really have any meaning. Do you mean if it happens during combat? Or if its dealt lethal combat damage? I think "lethal combat damage" is technically a correct phrase, even if its never been used before. It might be easier just to say "during combat", though.

I'm confused by the art though. That dragon must be a baby, it's no bigger than the human skull it's standing on. How can it possibly by 9/7? Adjust the stats, or find better art.

thanks, i'll try to get on that asap

[JakeKessler]

More critiques:

@ Luther: I really like the card, and in play it wouldn't work as closely to Horobi as you'd think. Basing it on blocked/blocking is really nifty, and it makes people make hard decisions about when to risk attacking (and when to risk blocking if they're attacked).

My only beef is the name line: way too long. It looks horrible scrunched up like that. My solution? Take out 'Guardian'. Just call him Agrogan of the Seventh Circle.

@ GG Chrono: I like the mechanic, but it's going to be hard to find non-placeholder flavor for it. What does a converted mana cost signify in flavor? I'm not sure.

@ DBA: Really nifty card. I'd go ahead and make him 1/1 base though; Demons (and black creatures) with higher toughness than power are unusual.

@ Lokenta: I think I already commented on this card, but I wanted to say I think it works really well. It could stand to cost only :w::u:, but the effect is right on. I think the card would fit well in a set with a heavy angels/holy focus, like the Bant cards in Alara block.

@ Le Mirage: I feel like this could be really powerful in monoblue permission decks. Maybe even broken. If I combine draw power with bounce and you don't get in with damage in the first four turns, don't I autowin?

Oh, and you want to say "seven cards" rather than "7 cards". (see: Magus of the Library)

@ p-chan: Cool card, but in the Bible humans were actually created on the Sixth Day. Nothing was created on the Seventh Day; that was when God rested. (This is why the Jews observe the Sabbath--the day of rest--on Saturday, the Seventh Day.)


1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

@ akashmar: Congratulations; you have discovered why the "untap up to X lands" cards from Urza's Saga are brokety broke broke. Fix it.

[Le_Mirage]

@ Le Mirage: I feel like this could be really powerful in monoblue permission decks. Maybe even broken. If I combine draw power with bounce and you don't get in with damage in the first four turns, don't I autowin?


Maybe. The mana cost need to be at least 6 but...but again combine bounce with draw power and dont' get damage is far from be autowin. You have to have one in hand (or spend time and cards to fetch for one), to set your hand so that you have seven card, to don't lose even one point of life (monoblue can't fix that)...and that means, again, to counter almost every creature of shot or the like...and last, you have to play and watch for counters, or again for shot in response (that would ruin the condition).

It's most likely (expecially if he knows it's there) that the opponent may have fast creatures, a discard, a shot, a loss of life, a counter or whatever else that may impede you. Otherwise, his deck just sucks :).

Apart from that, it will surely be a potent card in a deck meant to use it as a primary or secondary win condition.

(Forget: urza is :u::r::b:, not :r::b::u:. Is born a mage (or is mainly a mage whatever) and a human, not a barbarian or some goblin;). :r::b: would be more suited for bloodlusted crazed necromancer or demon worshippers...who may lacks "wizardy" totally).

[death by aggro]

@ DBA: Really nifty card. I'd go ahead and make him 1/1 base though; Demons (and black creatures) with higher toughness than power are unusual.

I see your point. Also, it makes it seem more ominous and destructive if it has a balanced and extremely large P/T than if one is bigger than the other, and therefore much more fitting of mythic status. I'll switch it up in short order.

Also, for any remotely curious, I got the name Nadirok simply by fusing "rok", a typicle stem used in names of demons and evil, ancient beasts, with the word nadir, meaning the lowest point of a descent (written as the opposite of zenith).

[uber_panda]

These are two sketches I've been tweaking bit by bit. Tell me what you think.



Sseptsamos of the Seven Seas - 7UB
Legendary Creature - Hydra - 7/7
Whenever ~ is dealt combat damage, instead put a +1/+1 counter on every other creature in play.
As long as a creature with flying has a +1/+1 counter on it, Sseptsamos has flying. The same is true for fear, double strike, haste, lifelink, trample, and vigilance.

Although this seems much more white to me than anything.



Sseptsamos of the Seven Seas - XUB
Legendary Creature - Hydra - 0/0
~ enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it. If X is 7 or more, it enters the battlefield with an additional X +1/+1 counters on it.
T: Move a +1/+1 counter from ~ onto target creature.
As long as a creature with flying has a +1/+1 counter on it, Sseptsamos has flying. The same is true for fear, double strike, protection, lifelink, trample, and vigilance.


This one seems much more hydraesque, and I think more stable than the rest of other drafts. But I feel that I've taken too much now from Apocalypse Hydra.

[death by aggro]

A couple of comments I just noticed:

@ Luther: For the regenerate ability, all you have to write is "Regenerate Agrogan"; the whole name isn't necessary on legendaries, and that looks a whole lot cooler. Also, consider Jake's argument about the name change, I support it.

@ uber_panda: Why not fuse the two ideas? Something like this:

Sseptsamos of the Seven Seas - XUB
Legendary Creature - Hydra (M)
~ enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it. If X is 7 or more, put a +1/+1 counter on each other creature you control.
As long as a creature with flying has a +1/+1 counter on it, Sseptsamos has flying. The same is true for fear, double strike, protection, lifelink, trample, and vigilance.
0/0

Also, that art I believe has been used before, and imo isn't very Blue (at least to me). If you want, I can help you find another art for it, I've seen quite a few hydra pieces in my searches.

[Le_Mirage]

I see your point. Also, it makes it seem more ominous and destructive if it has a balanced and extremely large P/T than if one is bigger than the other, and therefore much more fitting of mythic status. I'll switch it up in short order.

On the other hand, make ita 0/1 before thresold would enforce better the "dormant before awakening" flavor it seems to have. To leave it and make it a balanced PT after threasold, it could have been fixed by writing something like "Thresold - Nadirok is a X/X, where X is...".


Also, for any remotely curious, I got the name Nadirok simply by fusing "rok", a typicle stem used in names of demons and evil, ancient beasts, with the word nadir, meaning the lowest point of a descent (written as the opposite of zenith).

Cool :D.

[George G]

This one's for Jake...

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/RedundantTutor.jpg

[death by aggro]

Alright, everybody stop posting. The threads for this contest are locked down. George G wins since last year. Everybody go home.

[Tekkactus]

Guys, uh, does my card even work? I haven't exactly read the comp rules on coin flips.

[death by aggro]

Guys, uh, does my card even work? I haven't exactly read the comp rules on coin flips.

From what I understand the first two effects work, and the last one merely needs to be reworded. The best way I can think of is: "Remove seven luck counters from Turbo Gambler: the next time a player would flip a coin, choose heads or tails. The results of that coin flip count as the chosen value."

"Value" probably isn't the right word, but otherwise that should work. It also increases your card's power as it not only allows you to win coin flips, it allows you to manipulate another player's coin flips, something that both Red and rogues are perfectly capable of doing.

[ThunderHog]

"The next time you would lose a coin flip this turn, you win instead."

^^^ Honestly, I'm not even sure that that is right. Just my take at it. XD


http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/RedundantTutor.jpg
This is ALMOST as good as Cashew Triphecta card. Almost, but not quite...

[George G]

Unlike Triphecta, I'm actually gonna submit this...just don't know if I should mess with QOW's perfection and make my wording clearer...hehe

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/RedundantTutor-1.jpg

[FuDaWg45]

Unlike Triphecta, I'm actually gonna submit this...just don't know if I should mess with QOW's perfection and make my wording clearer...hehe

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/RedundantTutor-1.jpg

You need to reveal the cards to make sure both are the same. Sounds like a dangerous card to me, but I suppose it's within reason for standard at least.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Unlike Triphecta, I'm actually gonna submit this...just don't know if I should mess with QOW's perfection and make my wording clearer...hehe

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/RedundantTutor-1.jpg

You also need to reword that 7 life payment as "As an additional cost to play Redundant Tutor, pay 7 life."

[JakeKessler]

@ uber_panda: Why not fuse the two ideas? Something like this:

Sseptsamos of the Seven Seas - XUB
Legendary Creature - Hydra (M)
~ enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it. If X is 7 or more, put a +1/+1 counter on each other creature you control.
As long as a creature with flying has a +1/+1 counter on it, Sseptsamos has flying. The same is true for fear, double strike, protection, lifelink, trample, and vigilance.
0/0

This is by far the best version I've seen.


]@ Luther: For the regenerate ability, all you have to write is "Regenerate Agrogan"; the whole name isn't necessary on legendaries, and that looks a whole lot cooler.

Careful here. Somebody got in trouble awhile back for doing this, I think. Legends don't usually get their names truncated in the rules text unless 1) they've already referred to by their full cardname earlier in the text box, AND 2) cutting words from the name actually is necessary to conserve text size/space.

edit

This (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showpost.php?p=303240&postcount=31) is lolsy.

[death by aggro]

Unlike Triphecta, I'm actually gonna submit this...just don't know if I should mess with QOW's perfection and make my wording clearer...hehe

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/RedundantTutor-1.jpg

As I stated before, so long as you reword it correctly (look at KD and FuDaWg's suggestions), this card is win on a stick, and the art is perfect.

Also, I see your point there Jake. I still support the name shortening though.

[akashmar]

i realize my first draft is ridiculous, so i made a complete change. let's hope u like this one.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@akashmar: - I really did hate your first draft, but fortunately, your second draft is much, much better. Might want to bump up the mana cost by :1mana: or :2mana:, but you may not have to.

[Le_Mirage]

The great seven in the sky is marvelous :D!

@akashmar: your second draft is pretty broken for me. The mana cost should be at least 4UU, i think...or even more. After all it's like a 6-stormed Mind's Desire. The fact that you may play only instants or sorceries does not make it weaker.

[death by aggro]

@akashmar: your second draft is pretty broken for me. The mana cost should be at least 4UU, i think...or even more. After all it's like a 6-stormed Mind's Desire. The fact that you may play only instants or sorceries does not make it weaker.

I agree with this statement completely. It's a good idea, but at three mana it's way too easy to break. A balanced version would likely cost 5UU (which fittingly goes with the month's theme) or remove less cards, which you obviously can't do since you need a seven in there. C'mon Akashmar, I know you can design a balanced card; you've been doing solid for some time now. Stop thinking like a Blue player man:p!

[SalutCapitaine]

Any input on my first serious idea for this month?


Shrine of Seven Wonders (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showthread.php?p=303095#post303095)

[George G]

You need to reveal the cards to make sure both are the same. Sounds like a dangerous card to me, but I suppose it's within reason for standard at least.

Thank you, good eye, changed it.




You also need to reword that 7 life payment as "As an additional cost to play Redundant Tutor, pay 7 life."



I just worded it like vampiric tutor, at the end it just says "Pay 2 life."



http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/RedundantTutor-2.jpg

[death by aggro]

I just worded it like vampiric tutor, at the end it just says "Pay 2 life."

The way you have it worded now is just fine. In fact, it's better because you'll only lose the life if the effect resolves; it would really suck to pay seven life on turn two and get hit with a Force Spike or something:p.

[JakeKessler]

Akashmar - if you want to keep it cheap (and therefore fun, for my money), why not just get rid of the "without paying its mana cost" clause?

Also, remember: Exile, not remove from the game. Cast, not play.

[Le_Mirage]

Akashmar - if you want to keep it cheap (and therefore fun, for my money), why not just get rid of the "without paying its mana cost" clause?

That would make it pretty dangerous: like asking to exile seven possible useful cards for the change of playing one, possibily two.

On a infinite mana engine it will be different, but then again, maybe it will be just to same to rely on draw/tutor power to fetch everything you need.


Any input on my first serious idea for this month?

Shrine of Seven Wonders (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showthread.php?p=303095#post303095)

On the flavor side is interesting, but on the play one...it sounds like a win-more card: you use to secure your permanents (probably creatures) on turn 7, that is. By that time, the opponent may have already sweep your board with whatever shot, wrath, mutilate effect it may have. Sounds a little underpowered.

Got some doubts on wording, too. I'm not sure whatever you must have exactly seven different permanents or if you can put more than one counter on the same one...or everything else.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@akashmar: your second draft is pretty broken for me. The mana cost should be at least 4UU, i think...or even more. After all it's like a 6-stormed Mind's Desire. The fact that you may play only instants or sorceries does not make it weaker.


I agree with this statement completely. It's a good idea, but at three mana it's way too easy to break. A balanced version would likely cost 5UU (which fittingly goes with the month's theme) or remove less cards, which you obviously can't do since you need a seven in there. C'mon Akashmar, I know you can design a balanced card; you've been doing solid for some time now. Stop thinking like a Blue player man:p!


Akashmar - if you want to keep it cheap (and therefore fun, for my money), why not just get rid of the "without paying its mana cost" clause?

Also, remember: Exile, not remove from the game. Cast, not play.

Guys, I think what he meant by this card was to play only one instant or sorcery out of the seven possible cards you exile with this card's ability.

[Le_Mirage]

Guys, I think what he meant by this card was to play only one instant or sorcery out of the seven possible cards you exile with this card's ability.

It's TRUE :eek::paranoid: !!!

...that way, it may balanced: play a possibile huge spell, maybe at instant speed, by paying 1UU and exile 6 others cards...

It allows you to arrange your best spell on top deck, too (by the like of Brainstorm). But since doing that will require at least one more card, we can call it a combo. I believe is still undercosted, anyway. I can see casual players playing it at random just for the opportunity (and the laughs :D) of triggering a third-opponent turn instant Time Stretch...or the like.

[death by aggro]

Guys, I think what he meant by this card was to play only one instant or sorcery out of the seven possible cards you exile with this card's ability.

Ah, that is different. Even still it should cost at least four or five.

[JakeKessler]

Yea, I think this would still be a very aggressive combo piece at :2mana::u::u:. Consider reducing it to sorcery speed, as well. Small detail like that may actually be the difference between broken and simply very, very good.

[death by aggro]

Consider reducing it to sorcery speed, as well. Small detail like that may actually be the difference between broken and simply very, very good.

Wait, I thought it already was a Sorcery:eek:.

Ok yeah, cost it at 3UU at sorcery speed and then I'll consider it printable. It'll still be really, really strong, but it won't be mind-boggling ridiculousness.

[JakeKessler]

I'd say :2mana::u::u: sorcery or :3mana::u::u: instant.

The wording needs some work, too, and not just to update it for M10. The middle sentence could be a little ambiguous as far as only playing one of the cards is concerned. Here is a possible improved wording:

Exile the top seven cards of your library. Until end of turn, as long as you haven't played a card exiled this way, you may cast an instant or sorcery card exiled this way without paying its mana cost.
Exile Extensive Research.

@ Monkey461: WotC artwork is copyrighted, which violates the terms of the contest. You can't use art from existing Magic cards. If you do, you WILL lose points, or ThunderHog may even decide to disqualify your card.

@ Evol_intentions: I love this card. There are a few minor wording issues: "... shuffles his or her hand, graveyard, and all permanents he or she owns..." ; "Each player's life total becomes 7."

[Le_Mirage]

@ Evol_intentions: I love this card. There are a few minor wording issues: "... shuffles his or her hand, graveyard, and all permanents he or she owns..." ; "Each player's life total becomes 7."

It's Sway of the Stars, with the difference that it cost three mana less, it's white even considering that it will most than not cause loss of life instead than life gain, and that it's caster will be probably ready to exploit it at it's most, selecting just the card it needs to have a quick victory.

[death by aggro]

@ Monkey461: WotC artwork is copyrighted, which violates the terms of the contest. You can't use art from existing Magic cards. If you do, you WILL lose points, or ThunderHog may even decide to disqualify your card.


Not to mention that his card uses an already existing name in Magic and is stupid broken. You do realize that with threshold, that thing's a super-Armegeddon for three mana, right? That's not even remotely balanced.

[SalutCapitaine]

On the flavor side is interesting, but on the play one...it sounds like a win-more card: you use to secure your permanents (probably creatures) on turn 7, that is. By that time, the opponent may have already sweep your board with whatever shot, wrath, mutilate effect it may have. Sounds a little underpowered.

Got some doubts on wording, too. I'm not sure whatever you must have exactly seven different permanents or if you can put more than one counter on the same one...or everything else.

Thanks!

Redone my homeworks... Sevenfold Resources (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showthread.php?p=303095#post303095) I'm not 100% sure of the wording yet.

Comments are welcomed!:)

[akashmar]

thanks for the feedback guys.

actually it was meant to be only one card out of the 7 like Mirage said, but i was having some trouble with the right wording. I think its fixed now with a slight change in mana cost.
It should be balanced.

[George G]

Okay I'm looking up a dead horse's you know what, but it wouldn't be me if I didn't ask this.

I'm not stating an opinion here, just opening the discussion for debate(which is healthy and the whole point of a discussion thread).

If my wording on Redundant Tutor is acceptable, doesn't that mean that the wording on last month's Question of When is unacceptable?

Also, Can God create a rock so big that even He can't lift?

[death by aggro]

If my wording on Redundant Tutor is acceptable, doesn't that mean that the wording on last month's Question of When is unacceptable?

No; it merely means that card functions and triggers effects in different ways than yours does. Believe me, those guys spent long enough hammering on about it to confirm almost 100% it's totally legit. Your card's fine, his card's fine.

And avoid religion at all costs while on a casual forum. Things get wierd. Fast.

[evol_intentions]

It's Sway of the Stars, with the difference that it cost three mana less, it's white even considering that it will most than not cause loss of life instead than life gain, and that it's caster will be probably ready to exploit it at it's most, selecting just the card it needs to have a quick victory.

i get the feeling you dont like me very much Le_mirage, anyway heres the design defence, the only reason this card has blue in it at all is because i think the art looks prety in a gold border. The whole loss of life thing actually comes from whites love of Balance and the concept of 'being fair'. Are you telling me that Reverse the Sands wouldnt cause any players to actually lose life. And yes it does set you up with a 'perfect hand' although with no mana available it may be hard to win straight away. plus each opponent has the opportunity to float mana untill the spell resolves. Imagine casting this then realising that an opponent just tutored a Flaming Gambit. the whole concept of this card from the balance side is very verty white.

And if you want a bit of feedback to your card, i cannot understand why its not white, its just a twisted Barren Glory, which is most definatly white.

[Le_Mirage]

i get the feeling you dont like me very much Le_mirage, anyway heres the design defence, the only reason this card has blue in it at all is because i think the art looks prety in a gold border. The whole loss of life thing actually comes from whites love of Balance and the concept of 'being fair'. Are you telling me that Reverse the Sands wouldnt cause any players to actually lose life. And yes it does set you up with a 'perfect hand' although with no mana available it may be hard to win straight away. plus each opponent has the opportunity to float mana untill the spell resolves. Imagine casting this then realising that an opponent just tutored a Flaming Gambit. the whole concept of this card from the balance side is very verty white.

And if you want a bit of feedback to your card, i cannot understand why its not white, its just a twisted Barren Glory, which is most definatly white.

I just gave a feedback on your card, since i play Sway a lot myself.

"Reset" card are difficult to value. Their usually high mana costs and the apparently symmetrical effects seems to make them balanced. But that's really not the case. They are just the case of cards that you one will build a deck around.

If you run a "Reset card" deck, you will usually want to make sure that:

1. When you cast you will have some (possibly a lot) floating mana (the best cards to achieve that, at least at the time Sway was standard, was Mana Seism and Heartbeat of Spring). So, the less the card costs, the more you will be able to do it. That's just why, i think, Sway costs 8UU.

2. Your opponent will be tapped out (by himself or by your spells), or that he will not be able to play anything dangerous anyway after you play the Reset (you will know just by look at his deck - even if the player is not tapped out, if he is running a heavy permanents deck with no dangerous counters or instants, than you may just go with the reset when you are ready).
In a Reset situation, anyway, you may just wait for the best time to play it, while your opponent, on the other hand, you be probably "forced" to play his spells to set a win condition, so you may just sit and wait until he's tapped enough to disrupt any possibile retaliation to the reset.

3. That after the reset you will have in your hand something that you can play with the best possible result...and possibly a counter or two if the opponent has stored some floating mana too and you know he may play something good.

Your card, even it is surely balanced by itself, will be incredibily powerful in a deck that work this way. Surely more than Sway.

...as for the colors, probably there's nothing wrong in a white card that moves the life value around, even if down. But, Reverse the Sands was printed in Champions of Kamigawa, while Sway of the Stars in Betrayers (the set just after), and it "moves" the life value too, even if it's just blue.

By that, my card has surely some sense, as it's build around the "reset" flavor of blue (having the same life value of game start), and not on the "more more more life" of white (having a lot of life, no matter when).

[evol_intentions]

in light of that i designed a new one :), criticism more than welcome

[Luthervamplord]

Thanks guys for the comments - I've made the changes & I'm a lot happier with the card now. I'll make some time later to go over everyone's cards and give some feedback.

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

Updated my card. Very busy this month, so probably wont have time to update it again. Comments welcome.

[death by aggro]

I decided to go through and make comments on cards that I felt I could comment on. Obviously, if you disagree with my assessment, feel free to ignore my comments. After all, they're just my two cents.

KD: Given all your giving up, I think you can remove the “upkeep only” clause and still have a perfectly printable card.

Jake: This can probably cost one less, but other than that great card, I can’t think of anything really wrong with it.

Plaguefather: The way this is worded, if the opponent has no cards to add from “outside the game” (exiled is its own zone and therefore doesn’t count), they pretty much lose instantly. A better way to make this would be “When ~ enters the battlefield, target opponent searches their hand, graveyard, and library for seven cards, then exiles the rest. That player then shuffles the selected cards into his or her library.” Or something like that, anyway.

B4g3r: The grandeur effect is a little overkill, especially given any color can use it. A better, cooler effect would be “grandeur: add one mana of any color to your mana pool for each land you control.”

Ubertoten: This card is too strong as is. It needs some kind of drawback (look at Blitz Hellion). Either that or remove haste, but then it isn’t really red… I’ll leave it up to you.

FuDaWg: Can’t see anything wrong here, just be prepared to lose some points given you’re card is the only one so far where the only seven is in the cmc.

Kingez: A little too powerful here, as it basically makes all your Beasts seven power. Perhaps change it so that it says “assigns combat damage to creatures”. Still good, just not “Dramatic Entrance during declare blockers phase, win” good.

Luther: Card is fine as is. Still can’t get over that art.

GG Chrono: Way too Un-feeling. Two ways to take it differently would be that they can be permanents of any mana cost so long as there are seven different costs, or to have seven different card types in your hand or graveyard. The latter is cooler as there are exactly seven different card types in Magic (land, artifact, sorcery, instant, creature, tribal, planeswalker).
Lokenta Mirana: A nice idea, something seems off but I can’t put my finger on it. Either way it’s a pretty good card and I can’t find any reasons to fault it.

Le Mirage: I think your card should probably be multicolor and not hybrid. 3UG seems the ideal cost imo.

Salut: The mana cost gives me headaches, and it’s otherwise a good card. I say cost it at 2UUR, but that’s just what I’d do.

PRAM: Not only is this card not very Black, it feel very Yu-Gi-Oh-ish. I’d probably make it mono-Red, then reword the second effect to be able to fetch any creature with cmc seven or less.

Artifactor: This card is good, but I’d make it so any time a creature hits the grave PERIOD it removes a counter. After all, it’s a dragon; why should how the infidels die matter? Also, the art makes the dragon seem small, may want to find a better pic.

Evol: This card shouldn’t be mythic imo. Other than that, it’s great.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

I decided to go through and make comments on cards that I felt I could comment on. Obviously, if you disagree with my assessment, feel free to ignore my comments. After all, they're just my two cents.

KD: Given all your giving up, I think you can remove the “upkeep only” clause and still have a perfectly printable card.

That makes sense, I'll apply the changes right away.


PRAM: Not only is this card not very Black, it feel very Yu-Gi-Oh-ish. I’d probably make it mono-Red, then reword the second effect to be able to fetch any creature with cmc seven or less.

While I agree about it being mono red, I think you forgot that the -offering ability was in Betrayers of Kamigawa. Like in Patron of the Akki.

[death by aggro]

While I agree about it being mono red, I think you forgot that the -offering ability was in Betrayers of Kamigawa. Like in Patron of the Akki.

No, I remember the offering effect, and that part is perfectly fine. What isn't is that he's sacrificing one specific kind of creature (human) to get another specific kind of creature (dragon). That's a very Yu-Gi-Oh-esque design. Besides, as is, it's just a hybrid dragonstorm with offering instead of storm.

P.S.: Cool new duds.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

No, I remember the offering effect, and that part is perfectly fine. What isn't is that he's sacrificing one specific kind of creature (human) to get another specific kind of creature (dragon). That's a very Yu-Gi-Oh-esque design. Besides, as is, it's just a hybrid dragonstorm with offering instead of storm.

I suppose your right in that sense...

Although I remember it took a whole bunch of clerics to summon the Scion of Darkness.

Same could be said of Kyscu Drake along with Spitting Drake to summon Viashivan Dragon. If that's the case, you would think that concept was invented by Magic waaaay before Yu-Gi-Oh! became a TCG.


P.S.: Cool new duds.

Yeah, thanks to MZ. :)

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

I have never played Yu-Gi-Oh, but I wont let the conincedental similarity keep me down. Changed to monored, changed name to be shorter and non-gender-specific. Admittedly, it's a dragonstorm without storm, but with an instant speed option and a built-in cost-reducing effect (both thanks to the offering ability) and much better fantasy flavor. Maybe I'll have time for additional edits, but I doubt it. Thanks for the comments.

[death by aggro]

Although I remember it took a whole bunch of clerics to summon the Scion of Darkness.

It also takes a few creatures to utilize an Alara Herald, that doesn't stop me from believing they're poor design. But again, my opinion is just that, and PRAM can make his card any way he feels best.

[Cashew]

Tooling around. Finally added my initial entry.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@Cashew: - That's a very unorthodox looking angel. At least you didn't give it flying, though that would be the first angel without it.

[kingez36@hotmail.co.uk]

oh ywn you do make me chuckle

and Cashew just from the saytr legs and the fire and brimstone and what not.. Are you sure thats an angel?

[Cashew]

Not your typical sense and knowledge of it, but it's part of a series of Angel artwork and the name of the art is the same as the card. Uriel is the actual Angel of Fire. Course if you were going to go by biblical descriptions of angels they'd look very weird. Earliest images of Angels in existence don't have wings at all.

What can I say, I'm playing outside the "accepted" box. Although there is one Angel without flying =) Sustaining Spirit - and she has wings!

Not your Angel to go about creating miracles, more your Angel to burn Sodom to the ground overnight.

Many artists depict Lucifer was cloven as well, even before he was cast from Heaven. It's all in good fun, its a very interpreted non-stereotypical artwork though.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@evol: - You want the last sentence of your second ability to say "If you discarded seven or more cards, Hell-Flame Dragon deals 7 damage to target player."

@YWN: - goo goo g'joob?

... No seriously, it's a fun card, but with an already steep cost to activate it's ability and since its a creature, I think a better CMC would be like :3mana::u::u:.

[p-chan]

@ p-chan: Cool card, but in the Bible humans were actually created on the Sixth Day. Nothing was created on the Seventh Day; that was when God rested. (This is why the Jews observe the Sabbath--the day of rest--on Saturday, the Seventh Day.)
Yeah, I know that (I studied at a christian school :p), but I think the flavour is quite obvious: first god (you) create the humans, then god (you again) rest. I know it doesn't follow exactly the genesis, it lacks most things, but hell ...

"True Genesis - :10mana::g::g::w::w::u::u:
Sorcery
Search your library for a white instant or sorcery card and cast it for free (First day, God creates the light)
Destroy all nonland permanents. (Second day, God separates the earth from the heavens.)
Search your library for a blue and a green instant or sorcery card and cast them for free (Third day, God separates the earth and the sea)
Search your library for a card named "Wheel of sun and moon" and put it into the battlefield. (Forth day, God creates the sun and the moon)"
Search your library for a blue and a green creature cards and put them into the battlefield. (Fifth day, God creates beasts)
Search your library for any number of human creature cards an put them into the battlefield. (Sixth day, God creates humans.)
Shuffle your library.
Skip your next turn. (Seventh day, God rests)"

A little bit "verbose" XD

@Hummpuppy: XDDDDDDDDDD, I love that card

@Monkey461: Very, VERY overpowered. Compare it to Maelstrom Pulse or Vindicate

@Cashew: What a weird angel ... it's balanced and it's cool, but for sure it's not your final entry. Just waiting to see what you come up with ...

@YWN: Hey, it's a boss of Megaman X4 !!! I love that game, sigh ...

[JakeKessler]

Cashew... I'm right with you on the biblical angels not being our traditional conception of them...

But this is Magic, and it's pretty well established what angels are in Magic. They are pretty human-looking creatures, almost always female, and almost always white. Even when they are other colors than white, they are "white-plus" (Empyrial Archangel) or they are fallen from being naturally white (Fallen Angel). They have feathered wings, also usually white, and they always always always fly. (Sustaining Spirit is an embarrassing corner case which they didn't originally intend to be an Angel, and had to update as one because of her art.)

I like your creature. Change the name and type line and your card is good to go.

@ Monkey: Here's a list of things you need to change.

1 - The art is copyrighted, which goes against the contest rules.
2 - The effect (even ignoring the threshold clause) is way overpowered. Rootgrapple costs 5 mana and only destroys, doesn't exile. Altar's Light costs 4 mana, and can't hit lands or planeswalkers. Three mana for "exile target noncreature permanent" is way too powerful.
3 - With threshold, this card goes from overpowered to stupid broken. Three mana to exile everything except creatures from the battlefield? Casting this during an opponent's upkeep can secure the game on turn 3.

[death by aggro]

2 - The name Erasure is already Magic card.

Actually, Erase is a Magic card, not Erasure. I said that first, so my bad. However, they are still quite similar and that doesn't even begin to cover all the problems with this card.

[JakeKessler]

Oh my bad. I was positive Erasure was a card already. But yea, even if I'd been right that was the least important point of the four.

My last post now includes the correct information.

[Cashew]

There is an Ego Erasure and a Ray of Erasure. No actual Erasure yet though.

Oh, I decided to put up one of my actual candidates instead of one of the more differently envisioned angels. My entry will almost assuredly be an Angel, Demon or a Zodiac creature

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2354&stc=1&d=1250229377

[Artifactor]

after the last week and a half of bashing my salf over the head with my inspiration mallet, i have finally made a new card and posted it in the submission thread

[JakeKessler]

@ Cashew:

When Azrael, Archangel of Death enters the battlefield comma, destroy all other creatures period. They can't be regenerated.

I want to play this guy as my general in EDH...

@ Artifactor:

There are several problems with your card. First, the second ability has rules issues. Playing planeswalker abilities is like playing lands, you get one per turn at sorcery speed. Giving flash to that kind of thing is doable, I suppose, but there's no easy way to restrict playing only one per round. For example, in a six player game, you could theoretically use your dude to counter a spell during each other player's turn.

The second problem with this card is that the ultimate ability is pretty weak. I get an Ivory Mask that only lasts two turns on turn seven? That's a horribly un-powerful ability. No one will ever use this guy's ultimate, ever... especially given his powerful counterspell ability.

There's also no real telling what "for the next two turns" even means. Does it count this turn? In multiplayer, does it count the next two players' turns that happen? Or is it until I've taken two more turns?

Finally, it's worth noting that every planeswalker so far has had two colored mana symbols in his cost, except for Nicol Bolas, who had three. There hasn't been a planeswalker with only one colored mana symbol. This isn't a rule, I'm pretty sure, but it's a trend that so far has no exceptions. Just sayin'. I'd change him to :2mana::u::u:.

[Artifactor]

@ Cashew:

When Azrael, Archangel of Death enters the battlefield comma, destroy all other creatures period. They can't be regenerated.

I want to play this guy as my general in EDH...

@ Artifactor:

There are several problems with your card. First, the second ability has rules issues. Playing planeswalker abilities is like playing lands, you get one per turn at sorcery speed. Giving flash to that kind of thing is doable, I suppose, but there's no easy way to restrict playing only one per round. For example, in a six player game, you could theoretically use your dude to counter a spell during each other player's turn.

The second problem with this card is that the ultimate ability is pretty weak. I get an Ivory Mask that only lasts two turns on turn seven? That's a horribly un-powerful ability. No one will ever use this guy's ultimate, ever... especially given his powerful counterspell ability.

There's also no real telling what "for the next two turns" even means. Does it count this turn? In multiplayer, does it count the next two players' turns that happen? Or is it until I've taken two more turns?

Finally, it's worth noting that every planeswalker so far has had two colored mana symbols in his cost, except for Nicol Bolas, who had three. There hasn't been a planeswalker with only one colored mana symbol. This isn't a rule, I'm pretty sure, but it's a trend that so far has no exceptions. Just sayin'. I'd change him to :2mana::u::u:.

how about this for the second ability
-2) Counter target spell with the mana cost of 2 or less, you may play this ability as an instant once per round.

and this for the third
-7) For your next two turns, permanents you control have shroud and you can't take damage from spells your opponents control.

[JakeKessler]

Still has rules problems. "Round" isn't a word that has any meaning in Magic, and "for your next two turns" is still ambiguous as to whether it applies during other people's turns in the meantime. Also, that ability is still weak.

Why not just find new abilities? A less complicated middle ability, and a more powerful ultimate? Right now he's a pretty weak planeswalker over-all.

[Artifactor]

im going to drop it as a planeswalker and make it a creature

[Le_Mirage]

Some more feedback...

evol_intentions: changed your card to this dragon? I like it and it's a decent fatty. I think you may allow the ability to do damage to the player with seven or more card in hand (instead of perfectly seven), so that it will be easier to play it...considering, too, that it will be pretty hard anyway (even by playing black) to have such a lot of cards in mid game, and that it may be just better to clean the board with the ability using less than seven cards, so that you will keep the dragon and bash the opponent into face with it (...and that would be seven damage anyway).

@YWN: umh, yes. It's overcosted, both the mana cost and, expecially, the ability.

@George G: ...not that i realize it, you card may allow an opponent to actually find a use to this supreme piece of junk...

https://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Odyssey/Hint%20of%20Insanity.jpg

...and that's make it even more marvelous :D!

@Cashew: ...it's so simple, straightforward and potent (that's not make it bad, anyway) that it will be quicky became hated, just like the Onslaught Era, when white decks was going to destroy everything (and i mean everything) with Wrath of God, Akroma's Vengeance and Oblivion Stone...and then win by playing a single Exalted Angel or a (damned) Eternal Dragon :D.

[p-chan]

@Artifactor: +1: Draw a card? Look at Jace Beleren, man.

[George G]

@George G: ...not that i realize it, you card may allow an opponent to actually find a use to this supreme piece of junk...

https://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Odyssey/Hint%20of%20Insanity.jpg

...and that's make it even more marvelous :D!
.

LOLacaust!! I have tears in my eyes from laughing...I am serious as a heart attack. What a theme that would be: Find a peice of crap card, and then design a card that either makes it useful or combos with it or something. Good luck with winter's night though. Or wall of wood, or my favorite, great wall, for you Righteous Avengers!

[Kamahl's Disciple]

There is an Ego Erasure and a Ray of Erasure. No actual Erasure yet though.

Oh, I decided to put up one of my actual candidates instead of one of the more differently envisioned angels. My entry will almost assuredly be an Angel, Demon or a Zodiac creature

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2354&stc=1&d=1250229377

Since no one pointed this out, change "Legendary Creatures - " to "Legendary Creature - ".

[Azrael Subucni]

Decided to finally just post one of my ideas, instead of letting this month slip by me. Will probably end up changing it, or at least re-flavoring it when I have better ideas. The art just freaks me out.


A little feedback...

@b4g3r: I love the 7 lands = any color concept, but the legendary + grandeur seems completely unrelated to the rest. It's like 2 different cards in one. And if you do intend to keep that part, the name should be... more legendary. Just my 2 cents.

@Plaguefather: An interesting card... but too powerful, in my eyes. Discard their hand, and mill most of their library? Plus a big evasive creature? Those 7 cards won't help much when they're 1 brain freeze or glimpse away from death.

@Cashew: No comment.

[FrycHiKn]

Hey no love for the Fry?

@Azrael: The flavor suit the card nicely... But I imagine it like u/b IDK why, maybe because of the discard eh...

[Streetz]

I finally posted my card. Any feedback on it is appreciated.


Both words in the name of the card are 7 letters long.
There are exactly 7 syllables in the name of the card.
There are exactly 7 keyworded abilities on the card.
There are exactly 14 syllables in the rules text, (2*7)
There are 7 colored mana symbols on the card.
There are 7 globes in the set symbol
The power and toughness total to 7.

The card info (#/total) adds up to 7.
The numbers in the rules text add up to 7.
There are exactly seven instances of a number on the card.
There are seven symbols in the rules text of the card.
Both words in the illustrator are 7 characters long.
There are also 7 syllables in the illustrator line.
The line under that has 7 letters in it.

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2356&stc=1&d=1250297458

[FrycHiKn]

Streetz overdid it... And the fry believes that is a loophole, there isnt a number 7 per se eh!


And is the wording for my card updated?

[Streetz]

But then I wouldn't have a division of 7 number of ways to show off the number 7. :)

[Azrael Subucni]

@FrycHiKn: I believe the drawing effect would probably occur at the beginning of the upkeep (or draw step, your choice). Most effects like that do, at least. I love the idea of a howling mine that hits both players at once. But the 'two or more players' clause feels clunky. Maybe 'each player'?

@Streetz: As always, you ride the line between genius and insanity well. It's kinda overpowered, but most of the abilities work together quite nicely. Only one problem. Shouldn't there be a number after Rampage?

[FrycHiKn]

@FrycHiKn: I believe the drawing effect would probably occur at the beginning of the upkeep (or draw step, your choice). Most effects like that do, at least. I love the idea of a howling mine that hits both players at once. But the 'two or more players' clause feels clunky. Maybe 'each player'?


The problem is the multiplayer thingy. But I'll check it out eh :E



@Streetz: As always, you ride the line between genius and insanity well. It's kinda overpowered, but most of the abilities work together quite nicely. Only one problem. Shouldn't there be a number after Rampage?

Rampage 7 eh Streetz?

[Streetz]

Ha. That kind of foils some of the card. Darnit. :) I'm fixing it now.

[MechanicalMind]

Here's my entry for this month, a bit late due to vacation :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/Prophet_it/SevenFoldsinTime.png

[FuDaWg45]

Streetz, your card is too powerful. And more abilities is not necessarily a good thing. Right now the card is pretty confusing - lacking in "grokkability" as they say.

Artifactor, +1 draw a card is not balanced. Maybe if he costed :3mana::u::u: or :4mana::u::u: to cast. The second ability should read "Counter target spell with converted mana cost 2 or less." And I think the second part should be "You may play this ability anytime you could play an instant." Not sure though. For the third ability, giving players shroud is most definitely a white thing. Add white to the mana cost of the card before exploring with this ability anymore.

EdibleEggy, the cost in the text box should be :1mana::u::u:, not :u::u::1mana:. Also, discarding the two cards should be part of the cost of the ability. Also, "Put target card in your graveyard on top of your library." Finally: "Threshold - Sacrifice Remorseful Bargain, Discard your hand: Draw four cards, then exile all cards in your graveyard. Play this ability only if seven or more cards are in your graveyard."

[Le_Mirage]

Here's my entry for this month, a bit late due to vacation :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/Prophet_it/SevenFoldsinTime.png

Is good per se, but is pretty underpowered...for one less mana you will get Concentrate, and for the same (just a more instensive)you will get Ancestral Memories.

[death by aggro]

Is good per se, but is pretty underpowered...for one less mana you will get Concentrate, and for the same (just a more instensive)you will get Ancestral Memories.

I agree, I suggest making it instant speed. You could always lower the cost, but I think your card would be much cooler as an instant.

[GG Crono]

EdibleEggy, I just want to say that I really dig your card. Nice first post. :)

[MechanicalMind]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I hope you read the card well, it says you look at the *bottom* cards of your library, not the *top* ones :D

anyway, here it is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/Prophet_it/SevenFoldsinTime-1.png

[FuDaWg45]

Well, there was a lukewarm response to my first submission. I do have another 7 CMC creature in my new set, but didn't have art for it yet.

Some searching and...

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/FuDaWg45/Riftfall/EchoThrasher.jpg

I'll fix the wording later.

Which do you guys like better, this or the first one? (First one is on page 1 of the submissions thread, at the bottom)

[JakeKessler]

@ FuDaWg45:

1) "Enters the battlefield", not "comes into play".

2) Don't forget your artist credit!

[death by aggro]

The giant's definetely awesome. Again, you may lose points as there's no actual seven on the card, but great design otherwise.

[Le_Mirage]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I hope you read the card well, it says you look at the *bottom* cards of your library, not the *top* ones :D


...yes, but it does not make it that different, on a power level. With the new version, at least, you may arrange the top of your deck during opponent's turn, so that you will draw the card you need (if you find it) on the beginning of yours.



Which do you guys like better, this or the first one? (First one is on page 1 of the submissions thread, at the bottom)

...ironically, since it makes me remember of her, i think that the Eternal Witness would be still the broken card it was/is, compared to it :D. But apart from that, the giant is a very good card.

[JakeKessler]

@ MM: It doesn't really matter, but for what it's worth, I really dig your expansion symbol.

[FuDaWg45]

@ FuDaWg45:

1) "Enters the battlefield", not "comes into play".

2) Don't forget your artist credit!

Yeah, I noticed both of those after I uploaded. It's fixed now.


The giant's definetely awesome. Again, you may lose points as there's no actual seven on the card, but great design otherwise.

CMC = 7. Thanks for the compliment. :)


...ironically, since it makes me remember of her, i think that the Eternal Witness would be still the broken card it was/is, compared to it :D. But apart from that, the giant is a very good card.

Well Eternal Witness costs a paltry 3 mana. This guy costs 7, so the potential for abuse gets limited to green mana ramp decks, which frankly deserve to get high end awesome beaters. Thanks for the compliment. :)

[MechanicalMind]

@ MM: It doesn't really matter, but for what it's worth, I really dig your expansion symbol.

Thank you very much, JK. I'm glad you like it :)
I modified it a bit more, inspired to sleight of hand, just a bit more "extensive".

[FuDaWg45]

scydarkhope - The first part of the card isn't really supported by the rules of the game. How are you going to prove you have exactly 7 copies in your deck? The whole point of the game is to keep your deck secret, so showing your whole deck to your opponent isn't a good way of going about it. Secondly, black creatures don't get shroud. Out of all black creatures ever printed, Cairn Wanderer is the only one that can do it, and even he needs help to get there. Preventing damage is a white ability. Finally, I really like the drawback you created in the third line. Kind of like a super strict "legend" rule. I would keep fiddling with this one and see what you can come up with.

MechanicalMind - Ancestral Memories, Inspiration... With the card advantage it now has, plus the manipulation you now get, I'd say this needs to be a sorcery, and needs to cost more than ancestral memories.

[MechanicalMind]

MechanicalMind - Ancestral Memories, Inspiration... With the card advantage it now has, plus the manipulation you now get, I'd say this needs to be a sorcery, and needs to cost more than ancestral memories.

Yeah...perhaps you're right. Switching back to original formula :D

[JakeKessler]

scydarkhope - The first part of the card isn't really supported by the rules of the game. How are you going to prove you have exactly 7 copies in your deck? The whole point of the game is to keep your deck secret, so showing your whole deck to your opponent isn't a good way of going about it.

I imagine this would be like the rules governing most Magic cards being limited to four-ofs, or in the case of restricted cards, one-ofs: A deck wouldn't typically be checked before the game, but if your opponent suspects you aren't adhering to the requirement, they can call a judge to deck-check you.

I think the wording is a little iffy, but it's functional enough not to be a big deal. Something based on the wording for Relentless Rats might be worth trying: "A deck must have exactly zero or exactly seven cards named CARDNAME," for example.

Oh, and it's worth noting that this ability makes the card completely illegal in any Singleton format. Not sure if that's a problem, but I just thought I'd point it out.


Secondly, black creatures don't get shroud. Out of all black creatures ever printed, Cairn Wanderer is the only one that can do it, and even he needs help to get there.

Agreed. The closest thing black gets to shroud is the occasional (very occasional) protection from black (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3315) or protection from white (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=190540) creature.


Preventing damage is a white ability.

Aside from the aforementioned protection creatures (because technically that's a form of damage prevention), there's always good old Uncle Istvan. Since black is the color of self-preservation and self-centeredness, the occasional dabbling in defensive magic isn't that much of a flavor issue for this color. Still, it usually takes the form of retaliatory or preventive removal, a la Dread or Seal of Doom. Old Uncle Istvan should probably be treated as the exception, rather than the rule.


Finally, I really like the drawback you created in the third line. Kind of like a super strict "legend" rule. I would keep fiddling with this one and see what you can come up with.

I like it a little myself, but I think it doesn't come anywhere near what it needs to do to balance out a nigh-unkillable 5-power beater coming out on turn 2, especially since you have almost two full playsets of him in the deck to maximize your odds of getting him in hand. Once he's in play, he can't be targeted or damaged. Who cares if you get a second one?

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@Mindbomb: - Huh, at first glance, you might think this is a bad card but I took a good look and its actually pretty good... Hmm, I am not sure what to say more about it other then put the flying and deathtouch on top if you can. Also, switch the creature type around to "Elder Dragon", but only if you want to I guess...

[JakeKessler]

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic751_7.gif

Nice sig.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Nice sig.

Thanks, Micheal Zeora made it for me. :)

[Le_Mirage]

Preventing damage is a white ability.

Back in the old days cards where designed caring a bit more about flavor and a bit less to the color wheel. Cards like Wall of Shadows and Darkness are some example.

By the way, Dorian Gray is immortal, but not invunerable or "untargetable". If i was to find his "magic side" i'll say to make him immune to any effect that would lower his power and toughness (including -1/-1 counters). Thought pretty limited as an ability (...being a black card, too, it will be no bad that it's immune to a main black ability), i think it will be a good way to symbolize the fact that he cannot age.

[Mindbomb]

@Mindbomb: - Huh, at first glance, you might think this is a bad card but I took a good look and its actually pretty good... Hmm, I am not sure what to say more about it other then put the flying and deathtouch on top if you can. Also, switch the creature type around to "Elder Dragon", but only if you want to I guess...

This is my first go at this so I think I'll leave it as it is and learn from my mistakes, or maybe not lol, but thanks for the suggestions and the compliment.

[FuDaWg45]

Back in the old days cards where designed caring a bit more about flavor and a bit less to the color wheel. Cards like Wall of Shadows and Darkness are some example.

I'm aware of that. That's where I started too. But unfortunately that's not the way the game works anymore. Back then they were still reaching for each color's proper identity, trying out various abilities and seeing where they fit best. Heck, check out this progression: Koskun Falls -> Propaganda -> Ghostly Prison

[FuDaWg45]

Mindbomb - I wouldn't use "Dragon Elder" as your creature type. That steps on the toes of the original "Elder Dragons," which is pretty sacred ground. Wuji needs counters or something to count how many permanents have been exiled. You can't just rely on memory. I think Taiji's ability should read "Return target permanent card exiled by Wuji to play under your control."

Nice job on the card though. The art is perfect. :)

[JakeKessler]

Mindbomb - I wouldn't use "Dragon Elder" as your creature type. That steps on the toes of the original "Elder Dragons," which is pretty sacred ground. Wuji needs counters or something to count how many permanents have been exiled. You can't just rely on memory. I think Taiji's ability should read "Return target permanent card exiled by Wuji to play under your control."

Strictly speaking, nothing says you can't just target any old card in the exiled zone--look at Pull From Eternity, after all, or Riftsweeper. I likewise can't see a reason why Wuji can't just "remember" how many cards have been exiled with it.

That being said, most cards that both exile cards and interfere with already-exiled cards involve the phrase "removed with (this card)" somewhere. Likewise, counters on Wuji might make the card more user-friendly, even if they aren't explicitly required.

You could even make them ki counters, since this is Kamigawa-themed, after all.

Oh! And speaking of which, does anyone see a problem mixing hybrid, which wasn't in Kamigawa, with split cards, which weren't anywhere else? I know this is the sort of thing people have been docked points for in the past. ThunderHog probably won't weigh in on the thread, but you should shoot him a PM before you finalize this entry.

[Mindbomb]

Thanks for the tips guys. I fixed it (I think). I thought that only being able to return permanents that Wuji exiled would actually underpower him for the time it takes to actually be able to use Taiji's power so I left it the same. As for the casting cost, I think it's feasible even though it may not have been used in Kamigawa it wouldn't be hard to imagine it being used like that in later series. i never played Kamigawa for the record and have never actually seen a flip card aside from online. Once again thanks for all the input.

[Michael_Zeora]

In Order of Submission MZ gives his opinion...

Goal in Mind: "the Number 7"
What MZ expects - use of CMC == 7, power/toughness/loyality == 7, effects in sevens. Flavor dealing with seven

Cashew - the image was one of Seph's banners. Although the use of seven is for flavor and CMC reasons, I sadly don't see this as a strong card in the theme. Great Card, just not for this particular theme.

Krakn Slayr - Overall I find it a great "fun" or "un" card with a great level of balance and brokeness. Sadly I have to say for the theme of seven it doesn't meet my expectations.

KD - Only if there was something to put seven creatures at the top of ones library to make this card worth it's costs. For the idea of seven I'm not really sure that this would do it, but to me this is a slightly stronger contenter. Top 15 work.

uber panda - right off the bat this man is the man to beat on the theme. Flavor of Seven + Effect of Seven + Generally stronger as once it hits that 7 effect. Strong, balanced, hits theme. this is a great card for this contest.

Streetz - Overboard much. I'm sure he was just doing that for fun though, not a serious contender in this one. (even though it's still a OK card besides having to decode all those evergreens)

Jake - this is another strong contender for the theme. 7 words in flavor text, 7 in the rules text, 7 letters in the name, CMC == 7. Without being overly apparent.

Plaguefather - makes the theme, but it's overly powerful for it's cost - yes even 3+C+D+D+E is very possible (considering it's in the colors and under one colorless from Nicol's PW form.)

b4g3r - Land makes me go Woah. Really it has almost a Domain or Threshold feel without actually stating. Grandeur is really just icing on cake.

Tekk - Coin Flipping... oh god the coin flipping. Christ me the coin flipping. again, makes the theme, image is funny and weird. This is strong contender just on the fact it is what it is.

Ubertotem - 7 power, Rampage 7 at the cost of 5 (and only in 2 colors) this makes it not only a chase card reguardless of rarity. It's just overpowered in my mind.

FuD - outside of CMC I find this card just generally awesome if not maybe slightly overpowered.

Luther - 7 references to 7 plus a shot at the Divine Comedy, theme wise Luther is a clear Double Win, but overall I think it needs more power.

GG Crono - I like the idea, implementation is a maybe. Alt Win cards are always cool though.

dba - great card idea, using threshold is a cheap move, but it's effective on this card. Overall he's weaker than the others i've seen, but I find it an interesting card.

LM - outside of theme I would give this card A+ theory and skill, but for the theme I feel it falls short.

Le Mar - I like it, very intresting Alt-Win with just enough feel to get me to say "it's OK on the theme."

Punkrock - OK card, bad for theme. (lower CMC by 1 and you'll be in the ok for theme)

pchan - stick to Seventh Day - it's a better card for theme and feel.

Alex - it's an OK card, I just don't feel it.

akashmar - Ok, I like this card. It's a bit wasteful, but it's a good card.

George - I like this card, but I feel it needs... actually no, it's fine. screw what I was going to say, I just feel it barely hits theme.

holy 5 - you need a bit more work. If you said non-creature, non land I would say it would be impossible to use, but allowing creature makes it easy enough... I just don't like it overall.

SC - good card, just a bit over my head. 7 different types? man that's quite a bit on limitations. (I'm sure theres a way to make it work)

humpuppy - your just... your out.

evol - you have the right idea, I just wish it was more simply worded.

sdaunce - tl;dr.

Monkey - using threshold is cheap plus dba already did it.

YWN - God I hope this wins just to see how it's going to make Walrus work in all his other submission from this point forward.

Arti - 1st PW I've seen, and it's not a horrible reject! I like it.

Fry - Love the card, even though IMo it just barely makes theme.

Azeral - Good card, good drawback for it. Luther's Wizard decks wants.

Eggy - again - threshold is cheap way.

MM - NICE!!! this is the first time I see people using the bottom of the library as a resource!

"Doran Grey" - Lord is outdated just Human will do. I like the theory but I don't like how it forces deckbuilding into the rules.

Mindbomb - a Kami fan no doubt, I do have to give some points to goodness of the card here. Great sevens theme going on.

[scydarkhope]

Thank you for the feedback. I decided to take out the invincibility, because of the fact that their are 7 copies. I reworded it as well. I'll keep the lord creature type in, as it is present on darien king of kjeldor after all and adds to the flavor :p. The forced number is to increase the likelyhood of revealing it during your draw, but this can obviously be used to a players advantage by seriously thinning a deck. I lastly upped the mana cost. :)

[Cashew]

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2360&stc=1&d=1250581806http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2359&stc=1&d=1250581817

More angel play. Can't decide if I actually like either of them for my entry, although I like the color interaction and abstract theme on Azzie.

[JakeKessler]

@ Cashew -

Raziel: Interesting concept, like the other half of Humility on a body without Godhead of Awe. The activated ability needs to be framed as ":u:, :tap:, Discard a card: Effect."

(Out of curiosity, what happens with Mirror Gallery and two copies of this card?)

Azrael: I think this is overpowered as is, but making it any more expensive for its size or smaller for its cost will make it too weak. All I can suggest is maybe changing the ability to a leaves-battlefield or put-into-graveyard trigger instead of an enters-battlefield one.

[Le_Mirage]

(Out of curiosity, what happens with Mirror Gallery and two copies of this card?)



A paradox :D...both Raziels lose their lose ability,but by losing it, they regain it and so they should lose that again...and so on :D.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

KD - Only if there was something to put seven creatures at the top of ones library to make this card worth it's costs. For the idea of seven I'm not really sure that this would do it, but to me this is a slightly stronger contenter. Top 15 work.

You do realize that it says "permanent cards", right? So not only does it fetch creatures, it can also fetch lands, artifacts, enchantments and even planeswalkers.

[Cashew]

I'm pretty comfortable with Azrael as is. I modeled his casting cost on Desolation Giant and Desolation Angel as well as Angel of Despair as the final checker.

Two Raziel's, that would be interesting. I do believe it creates a paradox. How does one have an ability to lose all abilities, if one has no abilities?

Or more simply.

If I have an apple, no one else can have an apple.
If you have an apple, no one else can have an apple.
Yet we both have an apple. This is impossible by the above conditions.

It's enough for me to definitely not submit Raziel as is =)

[Kamahl's Disciple]

I'm pretty comfortable with Azrael as is. I modeled his casting cost on Desolation Giant and Desolation Angel as well as Angel of Despair as the final checker.

Two Raziel's, that would be interesting. I do believe it creates a paradox. How does one have an ability to lose all abilities, if one has no abilities?

It's enough for me to definitely not submit Raziel as is =)

Good, I liked Azrael better anyways, but before you start getting cozy about this draft, you might want to change the last sentence of its second ability to "They can't be regenerated."

[Le_Mirage]

...yet the paradox fact has divert our eyes by the fact that, actually, Raziel has as a spellshaper ability this great masterpiece of a card...!!!!:


http://www.magicthegathering.speedyweb.com/Nemesis/NEPaleMoon.jpg


...so now i really saw them all :D. Maybe i'll go for a creature version of Sorrow's Path next time :).

[Cashew]

Yeah, surprised Jake didn't mention it. I even have the word "pale" in the flavor text.

[p-chan]

pchan - stick to Seventh Day - it's a better card for theme and feel.
LOL, I thought that it was obvious that "Happy Birthday!" was just a joke :p

@Cashew: For Raziel ... as long as Ican remember, all cards that make creatures lose all it's abilities, define as well their power/toughness. Ovinize, Snakeform, Humility, Humble, etc ... because, what happens to a Tarmogoyf when it loses it's abilities?

[ThunderHog]

(Out of curiosity, what happens with Mirror Gallery and two copies of this card?)
I'm fairly certain that timestamps kick in here. The FIRST copy of Azreal loses its abilities but the second one keeps them. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that it works this way.


because, what happens to a Tarmogoyf when it loses it's abilities?
I'm pretty sure it becomes a 0/1 vanilla. Ovinize and Snakeform both suggest that the targeted creature is completely changing form and becoming something COMPLETELY different from what it originally was - that's why they specify a P/T. Humility does it for flavor issues and Humble is the same way.

[JakeKessler]

I'm fairly certain that timestamps kick in here. The FIRST copy of Azreal loses its abilities but the second one keeps them. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that it works this way.

I think this is correct.


I'm pretty sure it becomes a 0/1 vanilla. Ovinize and Snakeform both suggest that the targeted creature is completely changing form and becoming something COMPLETELY different from what it originally was - that's why they specify a P/T. Humility does it for flavor issues and Humble is the same way.

I think Tarmogoyf isn't affected by the lose-abilities line, because his ability is what Wizards calls a "characteristic-defining ability" and functions in all zones (like Changeling). I could be mistaken about that, though.

[Artifactor]

well, due to designer's block i've decided to just go with what i've already made and just accept any results therefore

[EdibleEggy]

Michael Zeroa- There are three instances of seven in the card itself, and threshold isn't just there for the seven. It works as part of the mechanic to keep the card's ability in check so that you can't just keep playing its mana activated ability.

[humpuppy]

humpuppy - your just... your way too cool.



Why thank ya sir

[kingez36@hotmail.co.uk]

Last day of the competition!!! say wha

[evol_intentions]

lol fry, im loving the flavor text

[Le_Mirage]

Some more feedback...

Kamahl's Disciple: ...it will probably be a green one-sided Wheel of Fortune, in a deck designed to abuse it. Which is definetely cool.

_b4g3r_: ...i'am not sure about it. Fact is, by the time you have gathered seven mana, you will probably have what you need already...on the other hand, it will probably be perfect to run massive multicored intensive decks.

Tekkactus: ...it's pretty underpowered, i think. With the possibile exception of Fiery Gambit, gather seven counters on it would require a lot of others cards, and lot of time...with the risk of losing it mid-way, as it's an easy target for shots, creature kills, and mass sweepers.

Übertoten: as a Ball Lightning type is a little overcosted, since it has nearly the same chances to die as his brothers (killed by a shot or blocked by a 1/1...rampage could simply have not been on the card on the first place, since only a madman would block with two or more creatures and let hell unleash instead of block it with just one, take those 3-6 trampled damage and be done with it...yet, there is always Lure...)...but i really like it. A deck built to spoil it would be amusing.

kingez36: ...i think it would have been more interesting as an "all creatures you control effect", to let even creatures weaker than beast to have a swing in combat.

Luthervamplord: interesting, apart from the fact that every opponent would love to block it and have you drain yourself to regenerate it. But with creatures superiority (maybe with green and tokens) would be a powerhouse.

Lokenta Mirana: it's funny ! Expecially cause you will probably end up putting some counters where you would not want them :D.

Punkrockanarchymagic: the flavor is awesome ;).

holy5: it's an interesting card, but it's not that powerful to the point of hose itself that much. By denying a player to choose lands as the activation type, everyone would probably end up to select creatures...and that would let the opponent to play around it easily. The same hold for the tapped entry. It would not be that broken to see seven permanents of some type in game, and just play it and let it go.Without one of it's two drawbacks, it will be more playable.

Monkey461: ...broken...

FrycHiKn: it will probably easy to let it stay in play and abuse it, but let an opponent cut the same reward as you by you own dollar and time...it's hardly a bargain (Treasure Trove would be better on the long run). Still, with Plagiarize it would be really really fun :D...

scydarkhope: You know what? Now that i think it, this card would probably be the new and true Street Wraith; that is, players would probably run it primary for the chance of lift their decks of 5-6 unwanted cards at once at the right time. This simple fact, plus the capability it has to swing for 5 damage occasionally (expecially when supported by creature removals), would probably make it more than a winner.

[GG Crono]

Finally found a decent art. Could be better, but could be much worse, too.

I might change the name at the last minute.

[Cashew]

Wow didn't realize the contest ended on the 20th this month. Been so used to the 25th I was going to post my real entry this weekend too, guess Azzie sticks.

[p-chan]

OMFG!!!!!!

The contest has ended?????

I'm silently praying to St. Gary Gigax for TH doesn't take into account my fake entry ... I just wanted to remove it, but I didn't made it in time :P

[Le_Mirage]

I have understood that the end was 25...but made i have confused myself with the flavor contest.

[GG Crono]

I thought it was the 25th too, so I guess it's a good thing I changed my art when I did. :D

[Azrael Subucni]

Damn... guess I'm not making any adjustments. I really wanted a better name. But eh. All I can do is hope, at this point.

[ThunderHog]

As you may have all noticed, the contest has yet to end.

Yes, I did set the date for the 20th, but I'm extending it for two reasons. 1) I have been extremely busy this entire weekend. And thus, wouldn't have had time to do the judgings anyway. 2) I decided (around the 19th or so) that I would instead just let it go and see who was actually paying attention.

With that, here's my final note: I'm extending this contest to the 25th. However, this will be the last one that will end on the 25th and all following MCC's will end on the 20th.

This will give me more time to do the judging as well as more time for the mods to vote and discuss on the entries presented to them.

That said: You have three days left to finalize your entries.

[George G]

@Artifactor: Your flavor text has improper grammar. It should either be:

For plural shields:

"The shields stand to preserve the life of the holder."

singular shield:

"The shield stands to preserve the life of the holder."

Plural holders:

The shields stand to preserve the lives of the holders."


As a side note though, Flavor text apparently doesn't matter at all, you can have as many errors in it as your heart desires without it ever lowering your score.

P.S. Great Idea though, I love it. Never been done before, hope it's allowed in. Also you might want to make sure 5+2 is enough reference to "7" to be allowed. I would say probably not(otherwise you could do anything like 2+2+2+1=7, and it would get silly), so make sure if you don't want to be DQ'd.

[Azrael Subucni]

Alright, changed flavor around a bit. I considered naming it 'Braingasm', but that sounds more like an un-card than a real one. I think it makes more sense than the original, but am open to opinions.

[Cashew]

I officially declare myself winner thanks for playing.

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2398&stc=1&d=1251118382

Unless of course my official entry is DQ'ed epically. I wanted to make it a S-arse-ry but I figured that would synch the DQ :)

No one can compete with the wordplay, awesomeness of the art, and the total adherence to the theme. For those who aren't trivia gurus: the opposite sides of a die always add up to 7. That's the whole joke and its pure win.

[Luthervamplord]

No one can compete with the wordplay, awesomeness of the art, and the total adherence to the theme. For those who aren't trivia gurus: the opposite sides of a standard D6 always add up to 7. That's the whole joke and its pure win.

Clarified before the RPG players hassle you.

[George G]

Cashew, I made a card in fit the flavor that used a 6-sided die, this is what was waiting for me in results #14:


1/5 pts - Design Fundamentals
Players hate dice. A CCG is not a pen and paper RPG. Players (meaning a generality that there are exceptions to, but market research shows) want solid cards you can trust. This would never see print. Ever. A point for being on color.

This was my submission followed by my pleading and begging to not be DQ'd...


Playing With Fire - RRRR
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, roll a 6-sided die. Deal that much damage to target creature or player. If you roll a 1, you lose the game.
"It's like a normal prank, except you die."




I COULDN'T AVOID A PUN OPPORTUNITY!! Wizards didn't want dice to be used in the game because it would hinder it's portability. Who plays magic without dice?? Who I say!? Please judges, I'm begging you to find it in your hearts to let a guy use a die to bring this flavor full circle. The pun excluded, and God what a pun!, is it not time to let some originality flow....lets inspire wizards to print cards that use DICE! Imagine a creature that needs a D12 to figure out how much damage it deals! Encompass the most fun part of rpgs into our beloved ccg! Let Us Unite!!

.........or just don't DQ me and I'll be happy.

[Cashew]

There's only one place in Magic where dice rolling is acceptable. The silver border, encroached border, goofiness, and flavor text should signify highly that I'm there. See Goblin Bookie

[George G]

I'm a fan of "UN-", I was just stating.

[JakeKessler]

A Pirate that make lose life ohh
:mad:

http://i531.photobucket.com/albums/dd351/DOMINIUS_TCG/SevenSeaSwashbuckler.jpg

It's funny, I used a similar "Plunder" ability a year ago in a pirate-themed set (http://groundlvlops.googlepages.com/resume2) I made with my friends. We even templated the keyword similarly.

[George G]

LOL!!!

Jake I checked out your pirate set...

This card's art....

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/ghost1.jpg

looks a lot like the art that tyrin123 claims he did in his entry this month!

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq160/Ggarnermtg/GhostTower.jpg

[Cashew]

It's funny, I used a similar "Plunder" ability a year ago in a pirate-themed set I made with my friends. We even templated the keyword similarly.

Sadly the card will DQ'ed for two reasons.
1) The art is copyrighted and used in another TCG. I know because I tried to buy a print of it and the artist couldn't sell it to me due to lack of rights.
2) Custom keywords have always been a big no-no. Although its been long held that certain rounds could disown that concept. Just haven't seen them yet.

[tyrin123]

I never saw his card yet. I didn't copy his picture, than i think it depends which text(ability) is on the card..much more than picture.

[JakeKessler]

Couple more last-minute thoughts. (You know, even though the contest ends today.)

@ uber_panda: http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showpost.php?p=302472&postcount=6

How come his ability won't give him shroud or protection? Just run out of room? He'd be way more powerful if he was harder to kill.

@ Edible_eggy: http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showpost.php?p=304102&postcount=37

How can a Bargain feel emotions like remorse?

The first ability is strange for blue, who doesn't typically get blanket recursion. The best recursion colors are green (can return anything) and black (can return creatures), and other colors usually dabble in returning specific card types (Anarchist, et al) or specific cards (Sun's Bounty, et al).

The second ability is templated strangely. Once I have Threshold, does this happen instantly, whether I want it to or not? Or is it a free ability I can activate anytime as long as I have Threshold? Consider one of these wordings:

Threshold - Sacrifice CARDNAME, discard your hand: Draw four cards, then exile your graveyard. (Activate this ability only if there are seven or more cards in your graveyard.)

Threshold - When there are seven or more cards in your graveyard, sacrifice CARDNAME and discard your hand. If you do, draw four cards, then exile your graveyard.

[uber_panda]

@ JakeKessler
Shoot. He was suppose to have protection instead of lifelink, because I want to keep it at seven keywords but that was when he was still in his green version. But now with the green/blue switch, shroud would be a much more acceptable keyword.

[ThunderHog]

ThunderHog reporting in. Unfortunately, I have lost my internet connection at home for the time being. For some reason, it's just not working and all the internet company is saying is, "It's currently being worked on." It's been down for about 3 or 4 days now.

That said, here's what we're gonna do. This month's contest is now over. I've closed the thread and I've saved an image of EACH card on this computer (my fiance's laptop) and I've e-mailed them all to myself. When my comp comes back online, I'll commence the judgments immediately - I'll simultaneously put next months round up as well. I've already got next month's round typed up and everything, I just need to get online to post it.

Normally, my delays are caused by nothing more than my own pure laziness - but I assure you that this isn't one of those times! XD

Hopefully, be back soon! ~TH~