Nightmares vs Horrors

[GRUNT]

What is the flavour distinction between Nightmares and Horrors? Looking at gatherer, the only creature with the 'Nightmare' creature subtype (and no other subtype) is the eponymous Nightmare itself.

But otherwise....yeah, what makes a nightmare a nightmare and a horror a horror? Why is Nemesis of Reason a Leviathan Horror instead of a Nightmare Leviathan, and why is Soulgorger Orgg a Nightmare Orgg instead of an Orgg Horror?

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Seems to me that Nightmares are grotesque abominations of imagination come to life, while Horrors are naturally occurring grotesque abominations, so in that sense, Nightmares are more artificial as they were thought up by twisted minds. I always thought of horrors as the animals of the underworld, while the intelligent beings akin to humanoids are the demons.

I'm probably completely wrong but its still a thought...

[Arix]

It seems to me that the answer is the same as "what's the difference between an Avatar, an Elemental, and a Spirit" - that being "it depends on the setting".

Kamahl, that would make more sense if the majority of Nightmares weren't also Horrors.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Kamahl, that would make more sense if the majority of Nightmares weren't also Horrors.

They don't have to be though, that's the difference, you can still have a nightmare that is also based on something that already exists, only in a more twisted form, whatever imaginer feels like. Just because Braids and Chainer thought their nightmares should look like horrors doesn't mean later dementia summoners would follow the same route, as evidenced after chainer's death, his followers would branch off and summon nightmares based on already existing creatures, like fish, or dragons, or orggs.

Like I said before, I may be completely wrong, but its still a thought...

[Arix]

I don't know about that. After all, it's ont like Genesis is "Creature - Centaur Incarnation" or anything.

[GRUNT]

It seems to me that the answer is the same as "what's the difference between an Avatar, an Elemental, and a Spirit" - that being "it depends on the setting".


Yeah, this definitely applies to a lot of situations, with Kamigawa being the most obvious example to me. Moss Kami, for instance, could easily be an Elemental in another plane. Most Spirits outside of Kamigawa retain a distinctive ethereal form. And with those that don't (such as Carven Caryatid or Dancing Scimitar), you get the impression (or I do, at least) that it's the physical object which is imbued WITH a spirit, as opposed to that phsyical object being the literal physical manifestation of the spirit itself.

However, in Nemesis of Reason's case (for example), they're not pushing Horrors or Nightmares as either a tribe or a set theme, so why pick Horror over Nightmare?

[Drathro]

As far as I can tell, all Nightmares (with the exception of the original Nightmare) remove from play and return some object in the game, even if it is a parcel of life points. So the real question is: why isn't Realm Razer a Nightmare Beast? (I know it was just for Odyssey block, but...)

[GRUNT]

As far as I can tell, all Nightmares (with the exception of the original Nightmare) remove from play and return some object in the game, even if it is a parcel of life points. So the real question is: why isn't Realm Razer a Nightmare Beast? (I know it was just for Odyssey block, but...)

Whoaaaaa, how come I didn't pick up on that earlier? :P

That's pretty neat :P.

Ok, so this makes a lot more sense.

Basically, Horrors are just really ugly things (that aren't beasts or whatever), and Nightmares are critters which remove stuff and can potentially bring it back...right. Also, wow - almost all nightmares are from the Odyssey block? I know that they were pushing that theme in Odyssey, but I didn't realise that Nightmares are almost exclusively Odyssey block only.

It's actually quite cute that the Nightmare subtype acts as something of a keyword.

And good point about Realm Razer :P. Now I feel like it's almost a shame that it isn't a Nightmare XD.

[Friend Mairsil]

As far as I can tell, all Nightmares (with the exception of the original Nightmare (http://ww2.wizards.com/Gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?name=Nightmare)) remove from play and return some object in the game, even if it is a parcel of life points.exactly because you can wake up from a nightmare.

[Old Fogey]

There are :u:, :r:, and :b: Nightmares. From a flavor aspect, what do nightmares do? I think they terrorize you. I associate terrorizing with :b:. I guess because of the Fear mechanic. :u: does play mind tricks, and :r: does inflame feelings, but I feel that Nightmares should all have some :b: attached to their casting cost.

I agree with Drathro, mechanically, Realm Razer should be a Nightmare.

I like how Friend Mairsil links the nightmare mechanic to flavor!

Maybe they could have picked another name for the nightmare mechanic, so that it could be applied across the color pie (as it is now) and still be in flavor.

[Tekkactus]

Nightmare as a creature type carries mechanical baggage. All the nightmares (with the exception of Nightmare, who gets caught up in the 'in name = in type' rule) have a When this comes into play effect that gets undone when they leave.

Horrors are the race.

EDIT: Didn't read the thread! What Drathro said. :(