July 2009 - MCC - Discussion Thread

[ThunderHog]

So, who wants to give me a freebie so I can go to sleep tonight with a smile on my face? :D

[Cashew]

Oh wow, this month gonna get me in trouble again. Similar to one of the first month's I ran revolving around alternate play. If TH is waiting for me to mess up, it will probably be here.

Hmm...where do I want to play from...exile...the library....or the hand.

Just to clarify: for free means not using mana? Like Force of Will - not necessarily free, but no mana cost to cast.

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

My big dumb hulk of a first draft is up. Comments welcome.

[Luthervamplord]

He's probably a little bit beastly for what he does - might change that Free-play to something like:

"If you control four Black or Green creatures, you may sacrifice those creatures instead of paying ~'s mana cost."

Yes, what with all the Saproling token generation cards out there this might be easier - Land search is more prevalent.

[evol_intentions]

heres a wee bit of feedback in these eeearrlly stages:

punk- im sure you dont need to say 'where dealt lethal damage' 'regenerated this turn' should suffice on its own as a creature only regenerates when its destoryed anyway. Just because it has a regeneration 'shield' doesnt mean it has regenerated.

luther- i cant grope the concept of it being a dragon. dragons are rarly black and almost never green. I cant see a dragon getting a bonus from the forest flavourwise. but thats my only qwarm.

YWN- timmahh!!!

[Luthervamplord]

@ Evol: Click Here a Moment.... (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?type=+[Dragon]||subtype=+[Dragon]&color=+[G])
You're right - very few Green-only dragons; plenty with Green in them though.

Reason for Dragon - Easy; The Art Rocked My Socks Off.

Finally, to see where the idea for my card came from: click here (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89017).

[final_press]

Not really clued up on the new M10 wordings yet, so if anyone notices something I'm doing wrong, feel free to point it out.

On the same subject, evol: love the card, very clever use of delve as a catalyst for the ability... but I beleive you're going to need to change the reminder text on delve, and the wording of the ability, to read "exile" instead of "RFG"

[_b4g3r_]

So my card is up... is my wording correct?
Any suggestions on the card, or any thoughts?

[death by aggro]

Soooooo, is it bad that only seconds after reading up on the new contest and seeing the first set of entries, I feel all hope of winning slipping away:(? And I thought last round was tough, this one's gonna kill me...

[SalutCapitaine]

All comments and/or suggestions are welcomed on my draft submissions:D

link (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showthread.php?p=298998#post298998)

@evol_intentions
I think you should replace "..a card removed from the game with..." by "... a card exiled by.." for the M10 wording. Same thing applies to delve ruling.

[Luthervamplord]

Alright - Comments:

@ Punk: "Lethal" is a big No-No; just wait till Arix spots your card - Knipshon-Fit Alert! I'm not sure how you could work around that though - perhaps the presence of Regen itself rather then the activation maybe?

@ FP: Interesting; feels just about right compared to things such as Harvest Wurm and has that nice function of a Graveyard thinner and a beat-stick. Cool.

@ YWN: ....I hate you (so much right now) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmXwpPRbVSM)

@ Evol: That is a very creative use of the Delve mechanic right there; if you get less than four points for Creativity, you got robbed.

@ Salut: Drop the Void card - it's cool idea but unwieldy. Go with the Dragon but balance him out somewhat. Starters - The activated ability is a Clockwork ability - not Darksteel. Secondly; why does an underwater dragon Fly? My advice (Take it or leave it) would be to go for Affinity, Indestructible and :2mana:: ~ cannot be the target of spells or abilities until the end of the turn. (Think about it; how do you target something that can swim to the bottom of the ocean to avoid you?)

@ _b4g3r_: Hmmm, I'm not a fan of phase-relative abilties but that's just my hang-up. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure but I'm just not getting the vibe here.

@ DBA: Hmmm, something's missing here, just can't place my finger on it.

[death by aggro]

@ DBA: Hmmm, something's missing here, just can't place my finger on it.

Not anymore:E. Let's see how TH reacts to this one:p.

Also, SalutCapitaine, you're really throwing out some solid designs here; you might just be the rookie to beat in this contest. I'd take Luth's advice: dump the gold card and stick with the dragon. As is, it's elegant, flavorful, and the art's fantastic. I see no real flaws here. Keep up the good work new meat:D!

[JakeKessler]

All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.

[final_press]

Not anymore:E. Let's see how TH reacts to this one:p.

No offense dba, but he'd probably react by giving you a low creativity score. To my mind this is just far too similar to the new M10 dual lands. I realise that this has 2 land types, and the card checks permanent colour instead of land types... but it still seems very similar.

[JakeKessler]

No offense dba, but he'd probably react by giving you a very low creativity score. To my mind this is just far too similar to the new M10 dual lands.

I think that's the joke. It's not "too similar"; it's identical to the UB one except it uses the word "Sluiced" instead of "Drowned" and it has basic land types.

[SalutCapitaine]

I did some modifications on the dragon Darksteel dragon (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showthread.php?p=298998#post298998)

@Luthervamplord
I agree about the flying underwater dragon, it doesn"t make sense. With the modif, it should make sense now.


you might just be the rookie to beat in this contest. moouuaaaah:twisted:

@dba
Since the beginning of this contest, I realize how much is difficult to find good "free" art. Now I build the cards upon art... much easier.

[death by aggro]

I think that's the joke. It's not "too similar"; it's identical to the UB one except it uses the word "Sluiced" instead of "Drowned" and it has basic land types.

Incorrect; it's not the same. As opposed to the M10 duel, it checks for permanents, not basic lands. But yes, it's a joke. It's also a means to test the waters. TH only said we needed a card that could be played for free, and any land can do that. I'm not sure if he meant for that little loophole though. We'll see when he responds.

Ans I don't know what everyone's complaining about, the new duels are great:p.

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

Edited my entry- removed 'lethal damage' language. Thanks for the feedback, and best of luck to everyone.

I have to say that having a television/computer monitor in the art of a magic card is just wrong, and so is having a card I own be shuffled into an opponent's library.

[final_press]

Gonna change mine (when I can be bothered) to read "exile target black creature in your graveyard" as otherwise there's nothing to stop any colour splashing it. Nearly missed that one :P

[George G]

Another problem casually is everyone having different sleeves, but again you can chalk this up to a Cashew decoy.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

My submissions up. Yet again, I am going for a more simplistic design for my entry, I tried to mimic the M10 wording as best as I can too. All suggestions and critiques are welcomed. :)

[_b4g3r_]

@ _b4g3r_: Hmmm, I'm not a fan of phase-relative abilties but that's just my hang-up. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure but I'm just not getting the vibe here.


Hmmm 10 life clause has to be there, because a potential turn one 5/1 haster and a spell for 7 or lover has a big vibe in my book :) just image you get a free Thunderblust (http://cardkingdom.com/card_viewer.php?sid=328523092&pid=125139) :eek:

[CoglineErro]

@Kamahl: EVerything about your cards (save the color of the tokens, the color of art, and the mana cost) is very white. Especially the name. The color of the art is green, but the poses and feel is white even.

[Tekkactus]

@ Cashew: I think in order for it to work you'll need to shuffle it into their library face-up, so you can tell when they draw it. It reminds me a lot of the Creeper from Fluxx, if you've ever played.

@ Umexx: Nightmare (the creature type) should be capitalized, and I think you need the same reveal wording I have (Arix taught me this but as I basically understand it you can't pay a cost unless your opponent knows what you're doing). Other than that it's good.

@ Kingez: See you in the Finals.

@Salut: Missing an S in "loses islandwalk"

@final_press: Seems underpowered for a rare. Compare to the ever-horrid Brain Gorgers.

@PRAM: You should have kept the lethal damage stipulation. Without it, you're potentially going to have a 14/10 for 3 mana and tap three creatures. Sounds OP to me.

Also, mine is up. Name is a joke, mechanic is not.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@Kamahl: EVerything about your cards (save the color of the tokens, the color of art, and the mana cost) is very white. Especially the name. The color of the art is green, but the poses and feel is white even.

Well, thanks for pointing this out, I haven't noticed until now but the name does sound rather white. Now, you say everything about the card, except for color of tokens, color of art, and mana cost is green, right? I don't think its two main abilities aren't off color either, since both white and green have creatures that put tokens into play. To be honest, I've never seen a card that would let your opponent have card advantage in order to play a free spell, and since the bonus of this card allows you to have more creatures, I thought it would suit green better. Maybe the card drawing advantage is to your opponent is more blue then green, but I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

Other then the name, I think everything else about this card is rather green to me. So I will change the name as you suggested.

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

I'm getting mixed messages about lethal damage. I was under the impression from earlier comments that in order for a creature to actually be regenerated, it has to have a regeneration shield invalidate either lethal damage or a destroy effect.

[Tekkactus]

Nope, just read the reminder text. If lethal damage had to be on the creature to play it it wouldn't work post-M10 rules.

[death by aggro]

Alright, a more serious card is now up for me. Even still, it's basically a spot holder till I can think of something good, as no way it would score high on originality. Man, this month is hard=/.

[George G]

I've never seen a card that would let your opponent have card advantage in order to play a free spell.

Not free, just cheap: Indentured Djinn

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

Changed back to lethal damage text, removed green color stipulation.

[Umexx]

@Tekkactus: So it should be more like:

If you control a Nightmare creature, you may reveal Nightmare Rider from your hand. If you do, you may attach it to the Nightmare creature without paying its mana cost.

Something like that? :hmm:

[evol_intentions]

i think this round is fantastic, its all about creativity which is what these competitions should be about. :)

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

@Evol: Sabotage is my favorite card so far.

[kingez36@hotmail.co.uk]

i worry that im gona get pouints knocked off for it being hybrid, what do people think?

[ThunderHog]

Tekk wins. Everyone else should just stop trying now. :D

[SalutCapitaine]

I made some modifications on the dragon (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2290&d=1246546389)

I used the Luthervamplord suggestions of shroud and increased the CMC a little bit. What do you think?

[Tekkactus]

@Tekkactus: So it should be more like:

If you control a Nightmare creature, you may reveal Nightmare Rider from your hand. If you do, you may attach it to the Nightmare creature without paying its mana cost.

Something like that? :hmm:

That's more or less correct. I think you can get away with referring to the creature as "it" the second time around, though.

[JakeKessler]

@Tekkactus: So it should be more like:

If you control a Nightmare creature, you may reveal Nightmare Rider from your hand. If you do, you may attach it to the Nightmare creature without paying its mana cost.

Something like that? :hmm:
That's more or less correct. I think you can get away with referring to the creature as "it" the second time around, though.

If you make the creature an it, then you have three its in the same sentence: "You may attach it to it without paying its mana cost." That just sounds bad.

I think you can get away with just saying "Nightmare," though, instead of "Nightmare creature". Since Nightmare Rider only enchants creatures, there's no danger of someone attaching it to some noncreature Nightmare (if they had one); it would just fall off.

Oh! And remember to capitalize creature types: Nightmare, not nightmare.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@JakeKessler: - Go with the +1/+1 counter version of your card.

[death by aggro]

On a totally unrelated note, how many months in a row do you think Aglamm's gonna post up broken cards that Wizards wouldn't make even if they were hopped up on shrooms?

[George G]

It wouldn't be soooo bad if the mana cost was like.....tripled.

[death by aggro]

New card up, and I still don't feel any better about my chances. This month, comments aren't just welcome; they're begged for.


Sigh...

[Cashew]

New card up, and I still don't feel any better about my chances. This month, comments aren't just welcome; they're begged for.
The name sucks, but I like the concept. Then again, I'm a sucker for Thallids were pretty much the first deck I ever made and took to tournies.

I as well would love comments. I'm playing around this month right now with concepts since alternate play is a design style near and dear to me. Let me know what you think about my three entries, none are polished yet, but getting them there is very hard with the amount of wording that needs to be done.

[Azrael Subucni]

@death by aggro: I really, really like it. Very elegant. My only concern is, that there's little incentive to pay the alternate cost. It won't be worth the p/t loss, most of the time. I dunno if you'd lose points for that. It seems great, otherwise. Creature dependant, but it can scale up fast.

@Cashew: I'd say Cursed Tome is the best of the 3. It's based on an unhinged mechanic (unless there's another card that shuffles into the opponent's library), but a lot of real cards were based off unglued mechanics. This seems printable, and fair.

The second one, unless I'm wrong, doesn't fit the contest requirements. You didn't really explain how to activate the ability (reveal from where? when? is this a cost?), but you're not actually playing the card itself for free.

Reluctant Hero is interesting, but seems too strong to me. A free 2/3, or two 3/4s, within the first few turns, can make a huge difference.


That's all I got. I'm still working on coming up with a concept... so many ways to go. But I'd appreciate comments on it, when I do.

[CoglineErro]

My idea:

Gaea's Rage
6GGGG
Whenever a land you control becomes the target of a spell or ability, you may play ~ without paying its mana cost as though it had flash.
Trample, Shroud
9/9

[Lokenta Mirana]

Well, the most prevalent thing I've seen so far in the Discussion thread is that people want comments. So, here's my two cents. I intend this just to be my opinion, as I've not been good at judging cards.

Punkrockanarchymagic:
Omg, Autumn Ancient: a 14/10 for 12 mana seems like a good measure in green, but with an alternate casting cost and giving everything troll shroud and regenerating trolls seems a little (truly) too much.

Luthervamplord:
Delacroix, Darkwood Scion: I enjoyed this one, and immediately caught the reference to the Dark Heart of the Wood. I like your turn limiter, and even your mana cost seems fair. My only question is: what's the ram throw?

final_press:
Barrow Scavengers: It's an interesting card. I can't really find too much to say, except that I think this could be an uncommon.

Your_Worst_Nightmare:
Khargaxx: Aside from the inherent 'TIMMAH!' that comes to mind, I find it amusing that this fits into last round's contest.

evol_intentions:
Scrappage Trawler: Despite the fact that this card seems too cheap (I could see it as a 1/1 for 3/Delve, but a 2/2 seems a little much), it needs to be in an artifact frame.
Sabotage: The alternate casting cost seems to cheap. I like it, but I simply find it too easy to turn an opponent's Explosive Growth into a dead creature.

SalutCapitaine:
Darksteel Dragon: Indestructible and mutable shroud/flying is not something I'd know the casting cost for, especially with affinity. My only remark is that the flavour text seems... odd.
Chromatic Void: Two turns seem like too much. By the time you finally get back into play, everyone's two turns ahead of you.
Dead Invoker: I'm not sure Magic and Lord of the Rings should mix if you want this card to be viable in the Magic multiverse.
Sacred Blessing: The last ability seems too powerful, though that could just be me with my Icatian Priests.
All: Wording issues. If you like, I can put what I think they should be.

b4g3r:
Hell Runner: One slight wording issue in Cascade. You have it written as '...until you exiled...' If I might suggest '...until you have exiled...' Also, I find this more a gold than a hybrid. Loss of life is much more black than red, and haste is much more red than black.

death_by_aggro:
Protospore: I have to agree with Azrael_Subucni. Considering the alternate cost hurts it, I could see it going for four, maybe even three (though that might be pushing it the other way).

Cashew:
Cursed Tome: The concept is quite interesting, but the mechanics don't really work. A spell without a casting cost can't be casted, so the 'When you draw ~ you must cast it.' doesn't work. 0 is the cost I think you're looking for. My other worry is that you should never have cards you don't own in your library.
Emineo, Astral Projectionist: I like the card, I just can't see anyone ever playing (casting) it. A mostly-free creature that you just can't get rid of is, yes, an illusion. However, the illusionist seems too... hard to reach.
Reluctant Hero: I really like this one. I just think it'd be interesting to have a Raging Goblin attack you first turn, just to come out with a 2/3 for free.

kingez36@hotmail.co.uk:
Land Shaker: 6/6 shroud trample for 7 with an alternate casting cost? I might suggest 8. However, I'm less interested in the casting cost and moreso in the fact that it's hybrid. Shroud - good with green and blue. Trample - good with green, acceptable with leviathans in blue. Gaining control - blue - of lands - green - giving creatures - acceptable in both. I actually think this is a good hybrid.

George G:
Overrunning Rhino: I actually somewhat worry about this alternate cost being too little for the Rhino and a stronger Stampede ability. Aside from that, it's pretty interesting.

Umexx:
Nightmare Rider: I might suggest the following for the wording. "If you control a Nightmare creature, you may put ~ onto the battlefield attached to that creature without paying its mana cost." Otherwise, I can see it.

Kamahl's Disciple:
War-Driven Kin: The first ability seems White/Blue for its equal advantage to all opponents/drawing card respectively. The rest of it seems decently Green, though I agree with CoglineErro that it could easily be White.

Tekkactus:
Thunderhog's Judging Ability: It definitely seems like a good card. The only thing I might suggest is to change 'put into your graveyard from play' to 'put into your graveyard from the battlefield.' Aside from that, I like it.

JakeKessler:
Living Voices: I actually like the one on the right better. Something like this seems like it should be grand (which comes from the French 'big'). Despite that, I think a 10/10 for 10 that gains you 10 life and can be played very easily (for free, in fact) is a little powerful. I'd suggest a mana cost of 9GGG.

aglamm:
Counterpoise: UU for a counter spell that also lets you draw a card? Even if it is Mythic, this seems too much, let alone when you include an alternate mana cost. I might suggest UU2?

CoglineErro:
Gaea's Rage: Despite the fact that this should probably be on the Submission page, this seems extremely powerful. What if you decided to put a Utopia Sprawl on your Forest first turn? 9/9 on the field. That seems just scary for anyone at the other end of that.


My goodness, that is just a few cards already. It's not even the third of the month! In any case, I hope to have my card(s) up soon.

I hope no one is offended by what I said, I do not mean it that way.

Lokenta Mirana

Post-Scriptum: As a, likely, odd question, how exactly does one vote for each month, after Thunderhog has decided on each person's score?

[Cashew]

@Cashew: I'd say Cursed Tome is the best of the 3. It's based on an unhinged mechanic (unless there's another card that shuffles into the opponent's library), but a lot of real cards were based off unglued mechanics. This seems printable, and fair.

Cursed Tome: The concept is quite interesting, but the mechanics don't really work. A spell without a casting cost can't be casted, so the 'When you draw ~ you must cast it.' doesn't work. 0 is the cost I think you're looking for. My other worry is that you should never have cards you don't own in your library.
Emineo, Astral Projectionist: I like the card, I just can't see anyone ever playing (casting) it. A mostly-free creature that you just can't get rid of is, yes, an illusion. However, the illusionist seems too... hard to reach.
Reluctant Hero: I really like this one. I just think it'd be interesting to have a Raging Goblin attack you first turn, just to come out with a 2/3 for free.

1. Yes it is based on an unhinged mechanic. Many unhinged cards do end up becoming real cards as you stated. The Cheese Stands Alone > Barren Glory and Mindslaver (originally designed as an UN card) are two examples. So shuffling a card into a deck has been thought of, it just hasn't been done yet.

2. I simplified the tome a lot by making it an instant and also by giving it a casting cost. This took a line of text out of it thus improving the aesthetics. I also improved the general wording overall.

3. Astral Projectionist would be rarely played I imagine. It is more of a concept card, something like "that's cool" along the lines of Mistform Ultimus (pre-Changelings) and Bronze Bombshell. The goal is to make it very hard to kill the "Body" meanwhile the spirit chips away for 1 each turn but requires a constant mana to keep it in play and attacking. I think the upkeep ultimately balances it as Prodigal Sorcerer can kill a person in 20 turns for 3 mana, but it takes 20 turns and 20 mana for Astral Projection to kill a person.

4. Balancing the Reluctant Hero is tricky. Lokenta definitely picked up on my Magic concept though, to provide a quick defensive answer to the Goblin and Elf tribes. I may have to move it to Legendary as having two-three come out in a single turn might be a bit much. Again, its a card very much in its rudimentary form.

5, I have three more concepts I'm trying to work on - play from discard, play from the library, and play from exile.

[JakeKessler]

My idea:

Gaea's Rage
6GGGG
Whenever a land you control becomes the target of a spell or ability, you may play ~ without paying its mana cost as though it had flash.
Trample, Shroud
9/9

It's interesting. 9/9 for nine isn't too shabby, esp with trample and shroud together, so it's playable any time... and the anti-ld bit makes it a badass sideboard card in any colors.

A bit about the ability wording... you don't need to say "as though it had flash" if you're letting them play the card right then and there, because you've already defined the timing for playing it. You'd only say "as though it had flash" if you were setting up a window where they could play it anytime that turn or something.

edit

@Mrayner link (http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=299164&postcount=18) - I'll address this one card at a time... just make sure you don't submit both when the deadline rolls around. =D

Farie Flash - First off, "Faerie" is spelled like this. Farie isn't a word. You also want to just use the letter X for the number of faeries, not the mana symbol. You can fix this in the editor by selecting the symbol and pressing CONTROL+M to toggle whether it's a symbol on or off. You want to do this with all the X symbols on the card actually; casting cost can be an X symbol, but "converted mana cost" is just a number.

Goblin Cannon Fodder - Here's how you want to word this card:

"Goblin Cannon Fodder is red." (Make sure you use a period and don't capitalize red - see Ghostfire (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=136044).)
"A deck can have any number of cards named Goblin Cannon Fodder." (See Relentless Rats (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=135236).)
"Sacrifice two creatures named Goblin Cannon Fodder: Goblin Cannon Fodder deals 1 damage to target creature or player." (Again, see Relentless Rats (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=135236).)

Also, you need a casting cost. The cost can be 0 if you want it to be free, but you have to actually but the 0 cost up there. Compare: Kobolds of Kher Keep (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=1583) vs. Evermind (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74144).

[Mrayner]

Thanks Jake, fixed the Goblin (was suppose to be 0 but for some reason Photobucket wouldn't let it work...I think it had something to do with the link.

I have fixed the wording on Faerie Flash.

Any opinion on the cards themselves?

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Well, I thought about it and I decided to drop my submission in favor for a new one. Tell me what you guys think about this one. :)

Also,

@Aglaam: - Word it as "You may discard two blue cards from your hand rather then pay Counterpoise's mana cost." The rest is fine.

@Mrayner: - Shouldn't the Goblin Cannon-Fodder be a 0/1? And word the the last part of the third sentence as "Goblin Cannon-Fodder deals 1 damage to target creature or player." I would go with this card, I like it, maybe make it a rare...

[death by aggro]

The name sucks, but I like the concept. Then again, I'm a sucker for Thallids were pretty much the first deck I ever made and took to tournies.


@death by aggro: I really, really like it. Very elegant. My only concern is, that there's little incentive to pay the alternate cost. It won't be worth the p/t loss, most of the time. I dunno if you'd lose points for that. It seems great, otherwise. Creature dependant, but it can scale up fast.

Thanks, good to see you guys like this. I tried to adress both your concerns by flavoring it up a ton. Tell me what y'all think.

Edit:


@Aglaam: - Word it as "You may discard two blue cards from your hand rather then pay Counterpoise's mana cost." The rest is fine.

You do realize that, even without the free cost, it's a Counterspell that draws a card, right?

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Thanks, good to see you guys like this. I tried to adress both your concerns by flavoring it up a ton. Tell me what y'all think.

I love your card too, actually making extra use of spore counters in a Fungus deck. :)

My only gripe is that you should word the part that says "to the number of spore counters on creatures you control" to "to the number of spore counters on each creature you control."

EDIT: -


You do realize that, even without the free cost, it's a Counterspell that draws a card, right?

Oh, for some reason I thought it costed :1mana::u::u:. Didn't look at it well. :P

[death by aggro]

My only gripe is that you should word the part that says "to the number of spore counters on creatures you control" to "to the number of spore counters on each creature you control."

Thanks, I'll switch it up:D!

Edit: Do you guys think it's fine as a rare, or should it be mythic? I'm not quite sure as I've never been good at making that call outside of legendaries.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Do you guys think it's fine as a rare, or should it be mythic? I'm not quite sure as I've never been good at making that call outside of legendaries.

Don't worry about it, its fine as a rare. :)

By the way, care to critique my newest submission?

[JakeKessler]

You do realize that, even without the free cost, it's a Counterspell that draws a card, right?

EXACTLY. *Shudder*

@ akashmar: No flashback on permanent cards. Just instants and sorceries. And where's the part where you can play it for no mana?

[akashmar]

EXACTLY. *Shudder*

@ akashmar: No flashback on permanent cards. Just instants and sorceries. And where's the part where you can play it for no mana?

oops ... how did i miss that

the flashback was supposed to be the freebie .. but now it's gone, back to the drawing board

[Tekkactus]

Tekkactus:
Thunderhog's Judging Ability: It definitely seems like a good card. The only thing I might suggest is to change 'put into your graveyard from play' to 'put into your graveyard from the battlefield.' Aside from that, I like it.

Ah, good catch. I'm not used to these new terms yet. :(

[ThunderHog]

Ah, good catch. I'm not used to these new terms yet. :(
To be honest with you, I'm really not that used to them yet either. Good news: I've got just under a month to learn! :D

[death by aggro]

Don't worry about it, its fine as a rare. :)

By the way, care to critique my newest submission?

Alright then. As to your card, I like the idea, and the art's awesome. The only thing I would recommend is to switch it from being a Wolf Wraith to a Wolf Spirit. There aren't that many Wraiths in Magic (four to be exact), and all of them seem to be things that are not quite real and not quite spiritual (almost like a ghost zombie... man, imagine how wierd that would be:p). Unless of course, you want to make it into some kind of "all W" card as homage to Streetz's entry last monthXD.

[Lokenta Mirana]

SalutCapitaine, your new Transguild's Cave has a problem: you can't play it for free. You have to pay mana to suspend it. In terms of whether the land could work in that way, I'm not sure.

Mrayner, you need the gold border on Faerie Flash. The wording of the second paragraph should go, I believe, as follows:


Put a legendary 2/2 white and blue Faerie creature token with flying named Delna, Fate Spinner onto the battlefield. If Faeries were tapped in order to cast ~, put X [some odd] tokens onto Delna[, Fate Spinner], and she[/he/it] gains "T: Return an Instant card with converted mana cost X or less from your graveyard to your hand, where X is the number of [some odd] tokens on Delna[, Fate Spinner]."

Courtesy of Dark Depths and the desire not to remember how many Faeries one tapped.

I also agree with Kamahl's Disciple; it should have a power/toughness.

akashmar, how does a Sorcery have a power toughness?

I shall be putting mine up shortly, so that everyone else can do the same thing to me as I'm doing to them.

Lokenta Mirana

[Tekkactus]

To be honest with you, I'm really not that used to them yet either. Good news: I've got just under a month to learn! :D

Oh God... I can already see the bodies.

[JakeKessler]

Hey guys, I've got another idea I'm working on, but I need some help with the art. Does anyone have some art up their sleeve for a Will O' the Wisp?

[akashmar]

uploaded a new one ..

some comments:

@aglamm: this card will never be printed even if you cost it at 1UU. the card is simply too powerful. The minimum cost is at 5 i think, especially because you can play this turn 1. the blue player will happily discard 2 cards for this effect.

@JakeKessler: both cards should be rares at that power level .. i prefer the first one though, a lot more versatile.

@PunkRockAnarchyMagic: why would design a card that has 1 in a million chance of entering play, disregarding re-animation.

@final-press: my favorite so far .. one thing though .. did you mean "cast" or "enter the battlefield .. coz the wording seems like the latter.

@_b4g3r_: somehow i can see this card doing some real damage in classic decks. a 5/1 with haste on turn 1 is very very scary. and god knows what cascade will reveal.

@death-by-aggro: i suggest rewording the abilities to "You may remove 5 spore counters from among creatures you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. ~'s power and toughness are equal to the number of spore counters among permanents you control." decent card though.

@kingez: so you basically take 2 lands and give him a 6/6 trampler with shroud??!! who do you think got the better deal here. On another note, i could see this card in mono blue but not with trample. it's not big enough i guess :)

@Kamahl's Disciple: there is no need for the and/or phrase. this will work "You may exile a green or black card in your hand from the game rather than pay ~'s mana cost. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield with a two +1/+1 counter on it. Now that we're done with the wording, do you realize that you have made the best creature in the game. a 3/3 for nada on turn 1 that can't be the target of your opponent's spells or abilities. you basically win the game if this is in your opening hand and your opponent doesn't have Force of Will.

@Tekkactus: I think a better wording would be "Whenever three or more creatures are put into your graveyard from play this turn, you may reveal ~ from your hand. If you do, put it into play." This way it can't be countered. Another version would be "Whenever three or more creatures are put into your graveyard from play this turn, you may reveal ~ from your hand. If you do, you may play it without paying its mana cost." This one is counterable though. Choose your pick. FYI, you cannot say, "you may put ~ onto the battlefield without paying its mana cost" .. putting already implies that. You only need to include that phrase if you say "you may play ~ ..."

[JakeKessler]

@JakeKessler: both cards should be rares at that power level .. i prefer the first one though, a lot more versatile.

Anyone else agree?

[akashmar]

akashmar, how does a Sorcery have a power toughness?


the short answer would be: it's 2 am.

[Mrayner]

@ KD: Wait, if I make it a 0/1 Rare would that counter-balance if I made the goblin have "Sacrafice ONE Goblin Cannon-Fodder: Goblin Cannon-Fodder deals 1 dmg"? What do you think?

@ Jake: I have an EXTENSIVE library of pictures...give me idk, 20mins to trawl through my collection and I'll find you some Wisp-like pictures.

[JakeKessler]

@ KD: Wait, if I make it a 0/1 Rare would that counter-balance if I made the goblin have "Sacrafice ONE Goblin Cannon-Fodder: Goblin Cannon-Fodder deals 1 dmg"? What do you think?

I'd keep it sacrificing two--that's what gives the card its unique flavor. You've hit gold there, don't backpedal into another Mogg Fanatic.

[Mrayner]

Okay, Thanks for the help Jake...for that, I'm off to find your Wisp Picture :P

also, Updating cards.....[TBA]

[Luthervamplord]

@Lokenta: Are you familiar with the Greek Legend "Jason and the Argonauts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Fleece)"? If you are, this picture falls into context. If I could find a more suitably "Wood-like" dragon I'd use it.

[JakeKessler]

I've decided to go in a somewhat different direction. (I figure convoke's been done to death.) Here's my new approach:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/LeylineofMysteries.png

Thoughts?

[kingez36@hotmail.co.uk]

@kingez: so you basically take 2 lands and give him a 6/6 trampler with shroud??!! who do you think got the better deal here. On another note, i could see this card in mono blue but not with trample. it's not big enough i guess :)

well furthering your resources by stealing for no mana at uber instant, cant respond at all speed is pretty powerful so a 6/6 shroudy trampler more than makes up for it i think.

and check all mono blue leviathans in magic history, they all have trample so i wouldnt lose that by going mono blue.

[Umexx]

@Lokenta Mirana

I'll take your suggestions, it sounds cool. Thanks

[SalutCapitaine]

SalutCapitaine, your new Transguild's Cave has a problem: you can't play it for free. You have to pay mana to suspend it. In terms of whether the land could work in that way, I'm not sure.

I know it is a little bit tricky, but 502.59a "...When the last time counter is removed from this card, if it’s removed from the game, play it without paying its mana cost if able..." I don't know...? Maybe something like "suspend 1 - Discard a card (or : exile a card from your hand)" should do the job.

Thanks:)

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Alright then. As to your card, I like the idea, and the art's awesome. The only thing I would recommend is to switch it from being a Wolf Wraith to a Wolf Spirit. There aren't that many Wraiths in Magic (four to be exact), and all of them seem to be things that are not quite real and not quite spiritual (almost like a ghost zombie... man, imagine how wierd that would be:p). Unless of course, you want to make it into some kind of "all W" card as homage to Streetz's entry last monthXD.

Alright, but I thought having a Wolf Wraith would be kind of cool, sort of like having a Plant Elephant or Fungus Snake. :p


@Kamahl's Disciple: there is no need for the and/or phrase. this will work "You may exile a green or black card in your hand from the game rather than pay ~'s mana cost. If you do, ~ enters the battlefield with a two +1/+1 counter on it. Now that we're done with the wording, do you realize that you have made the best creature in the game. a 3/3 for nada on turn 1 that can't be the target of your opponent's spells or abilities. you basically win the game if this is in your opening hand and your opponent doesn't have Force of Will.

Your right, absolutely right. I decided to remove semi-shroud and give it wither instead. So now it can be targeted and now it only receives one +1/+1 counter, I also changed it to a 1/2. Thanks for your help. :)

[SalutCapitaine]

Some nOOb designer advices :D :


@evol_intentions
Sabotage: The card is cool, but something bugs me with this card...and i don't know what...:confused: more thinking is required.

@dba
Guardian of Havenwood: Don't put it at mythic, rare is perfect for your card. Interesting concept...:)

@Cashew
Cursed Tome: need a silver border:D. I imagine the face of your opponent when you put your black sleeved cards in his white sleeved library and after he shuffle it... may I cut your deck:E
Emineo, Astral Projectionist: The concept is awesome, but I don't think it will works.
Reluctant Hero: I like it.

@George G
Overruning Rhino: I see no major flaws... I like it.

@Kahmal's Disciple
The 1/2 wither version is much better. I like that card!

@JakeKessler
I'm jealous of the leyline idea...:D. Since Leyline is ravnica block exclusive, the merfolk illustration doesn't seems to fit.

@aglamm
As akashmar said, the minimum cost is probably 5-6, maybe UUUU.

@Mrayner
Faerie Flash: The white color doesn't seem to fit here, you should put it mono blue. I think there is a problem... Let's suppose you choose 0 (you tap 0 faerie) for the X cost, you put a 2/2 flying token for free...?
Goblin Cannon-Fodder: error : "Sacrifice two..."

@Lokenta Mirana
Brotherless Goblin: I don't see any major flaws, I like it.
White Sisters : CC of 7 mana for a 0/2 and 4 1/1 seems a little high.

[death by aggro]

I know it is a little bit tricky, but 502.59a "...When the last time counter is removed from this card, if it’s removed from the game, play it without paying its mana cost if able..." I don't know...? Maybe something like "suspend 1 - Discard a card (or : exile a card from your hand)" should do the job.

SalutCapitaine is right here. Although suspend costs mana, it's an ability, not actually playing the card, so it still counts as casting the card for free. Will TH like that? I don't know, it's pushing it. Sometimes however that's what you have to do in this contest.

[Luthervamplord]

More comments:

@ Evol: Go with Trawler - It's way cooler then the second card and better wording; I guarantee it will score the best of the two.

@ Salut: I like the artifact version; just seems to work well.

@ _b4g3r_: The more I look at this card, the more I get it and the less I'm feeling the vibe. If I may, perhaps that alternative cost should follow something akinned to my conditional play? Maybe something like:

"If you control three lands/creatures/specific creature type, you may discard your hand rather then pay Hell Runner's mana cost."

It's neater, easier to follow and still keeps him balanced without the whole "three turn" deal. Granted, this method means a splash of green and he can be dropped turn two in some cases so perhaps lands is not the best method and creatures might be. Or better yet, seeing the Black overtones how about cards in your graveyard?

@ dba: No artist accreditation is a no-no my friend. Also, three spore counters? Have you played against a Fungus deck recently? I feel it's far too easy - but what with that Mana-Fungus around, any higher and you may as well pay for him. Perhaps three Fungus creatures would be a safer means - just my take.

@ Cashew: I like Emineo best; but your wording is off -

Reveal ~ from your hand: Put an Unblockable Legendary 1/1 Blue Spirit creature token named Astral Projection into play with "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Astral Projection unless you pay :u:.

Without the colon it becomes a redundant ability which only works when he enters play and a poorly worded one to boot. If you want it to happen when he comes into play, it should go:

When ~ comes into the battlefield....

@ King: ... Just not getting it - Nice concept, but in truth I'm not loving it. If I'm giving the opponent a creature, I want some recompense beyond Lands - lands go pop. Perhaps something around the controlling player gaining a Poison counter whenever the creature attacks or blocks would work better to smooth the equilibrium out.

@ George: Land types are always Capped, beyond that I kinda like it - simple but effective and almost brutally elegant; nice work.

@ Umexx: Don't need the word Creature, see Lorwyn's "tribe-matters" cards for proof of that. Also, things go "into the battlefield" not "onto the battlefield".

@ Kamahl: I suggest a slight alteration to wording here, purely in interest of speed, clarity and space:

You may exile a green or black card in your hand rather then pay ~'s mana cost. If the exiled card was a creature card, ~ comes into play with a +1/+1 counter on it.

See, much cleaner.

@ Tekk: Please leave that one as is; it's just so funny it has to be left alone. And always with you, can't find a wording issue anywhere.

@ Jake: Me Likey, me likey a lot.

@ algamm: See Dismiss, Dream Fracture, Remand & Runeboggle; they should all tell you exactly what is wrong here - Top that off with the fact that Counterspell, the archetype of said spell-type is strictly worse than your card.

Here's what you you need to know: The given value for a straight counterspell is a CMC of three, to then have the ability to draw a card is at least one blue mana (Compare cantrip versions of spells to vanilla versions). This, topped off with an ability to get my spell back means at least a CMC of five mana, not two.

@ Mrayner: Goblin all the way; nice concept.

@ Akashmar: Very cool. Not much else I can say here.

@ Lokenta: Token generator is off in mana cost. See Raise the Alarm and Spiritual Visit - White is the weenie color so I suggest something like :2mana::w::w: instead for it's cost, maybe :3mana::w::w: due to that nice suspend saver ability there.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@ Kamahl: I suggest a slight alteration to wording here, purely in interest of speed, clarity and space:

You may exile a green or black card in your hand rather then pay ~'s mana cost. If the exiled card was a creature card, ~ comes into play with a +1/+1 counter on it.

See, much cleaner.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, changes made. :)

EDIT: - Does anyone think I should change the rarity of this card? I feel like that could be a possibility, even though I feel like Vine Dryad could be reprinted as an uncommon.

[Lokenta Mirana]

Luthervamplord, I'm not quite sure you fully understand the new wording yet. It should be 'enter[s] the battlefield' and 'onto the battlefield' à la Captain of the Watch:

http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/images/temp_m10_core_11/i72a96xvxh_EN.jpg

Oh, and I had not actually heard of "Jason and the Argonauts," but reading the synopsis it sounds like an interesting tale.

SalutCapitaine and Luthervamplord. Looking at Captain of the Watch, I see a rare for 6 that is a 3/3 vigilance bringing in three 2/2 vigilance... I think I'll take your advice and adjust it to 3WW.

Lokenta Mirana

Edit: Jake, your Leyline of Mysteries is a very interesting concept, but it feels much more Red than Blue.

[evol_intentions]

evol_intentions:
Scrappage Trawler: Despite the fact that this card seems too cheap (I could see it as a 1/1 for 3/Delve, but a 2/2 seems a little much), it needs to be in an artifact frame.
Sabotage: The alternate casting cost seems to cheap. I like it, but I simply find it too easy to turn an opponent's Explosive Growth into a dead creature.


Sabotage may be cheap to cast but its so conditional, what if your opponent doesnt have a explosive growth or its ilk, well then its pretty hard to cast. The fact its conditional on what an opponent plays means that its cost is tht much harder to achieve.

Edit: in my opinion sabotage is the way to go

i love top downs

[JakeKessler]

@ Evol: Sabotage doesn't work how you think. Because the effect you're adding targets, it will look for a new target for that clause. You can make your opponent kill anything, not just what he/she already targeted. This works like Splice; if you splice a Horobi's Whisper (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74590) onto Rend Flesh (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=75259), you kill two creatures, not one. There is virtually no difference between how Sabotage is worded now, and "When an opponent casts an instant or sorcery spell targeting a creature, you may discard a card. If you do, cast Sabotage without paying its mana cost."

@ Salut: The cave doesn't work. When it unsuspends, it will try to make you play it for free, but the card says "CARDNAME can't be played," so it won't be. It'll just stay exiled forever. What you want to say is "You can't play CARDNAME from your hand." Also, be aware that if this unsuspends and gets played during your upkeep, it will count as your one land for the turn because it was "played". If it unsuspends during anybody else's turn (thanks to Timecrafting (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129012) or similar) I'm not sure you can play it at all.

Oh, and this is for everybody: Just a hunch, but if you have to pay mana to suspend your card, I don't think Hog will go for it.

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

@Akashmar-


@PunkRockAnarchyMagic: why would design a card that has 1 in a million chance of entering play, disregarding re-animation.

I think it's much better than one in a million. Consider Wrap in Vigor. Wail of the Nim. Crypt Sliver. Fanatical Devotion. Goblin Chirurgeon. Horror of Horrors. Savage Thallid. Freakin' Loxodon Hierarch. These are all cards that either regenerate each creature you control or can regenerate multiple creatures without spending mana on activation costs. There are plenty more cards, mostly creatures, that let you spend some mana to regenerate multiple creatures in one turn.

I really like your take on Call of the Herd being pushed into monogreen as a trade-off for a reduced cost, and how you managed to get so many colored mana symbols on a card for a alt-cost contest. Clever. Sneaky even. Perhaps too sneaky to be associated with Elephants, who don't sneak well. Only suggestion is to look into the wording- should it be "...costs G less TO CAST for each elephant..."? I could be wrong here.

@Lokenta Mirana-

Punkrockanarchymagic:
Omg, Autumn Ancient: a 14/10 for 12 mana seems like a good measure in green, but with an alternate casting cost and giving everything troll shroud and regenerating trolls seems a little (truly) too much.

That's why it's legendary, mythic rare, and, despite my response to akashmar, the alt cost has more than one not-so-easy hoop to jump through. Also, I'm going to change it back so that only Troll creatures you control gain troll shroud. I'm was a little nervous about it being reanimated in early turns, being untargetable and being able to swing multiple times, but then I rememberd these four things-

1- It does not have haste, trample, or any evasion ability, which means tempo and chump blocks become problems, making it a worse reanimation target than, say, Akroma, Angel of Wrath or Spirit of the Night, despite the 14 power.
2- It is vulnerable to sacrifce effects, and nontargeted removal which blanks regneration- cards such as Wrath of God, Balance, Diabolic Edict, Innocent Blood, Barter in Blood, Damnation, etc.
3- Reanimation spells are vulnerable to both counterspells and instant-speed graveyard removal.
4- It should win the game when it hits! It's a Legendary Giant Troll with 14 power!

I like your goblin card a lot (I'm a big coin flip fan), but the name irks me. IMO, a brotherless goblin should have a mechanic that cares about wether you control another goblin or not.

White Sister's name is also problematic- it would be like naming a creature Red Goblin or Black Zombie. I would suggest 'Ghostly' or 'Phantom' instead of 'White', remove snow from it's type (Why is it snow? The art looks more rainy than snowy), add 'Ghost' or the better supported 'Spirit' to it's creature type (Phantoms in MTG are usually Spirits), and consider giving it shadow instead of defender..it ups the card's power level, and is much more flavorful IMO, though no other ghost creatures in MTG have shadow (a tragic state of affairs), and only three Spirit creatures have shadow- Nether Shadow, Nether Traitor, and Spirit en-Dal.

Delirium is a crazy poweful card that does not belong in this contest. You have no way of playing it for free, despite whatever shennanigans you might pull off once its on the battlefield. Also, the quote is obviously edited, but not attributed to whence it came.

@Both of ya-
I do appriciate of your comments though, and I am considering other designs. Here's the other design I'm most strongly considering-

Crazed Youth RR
Creature- Human Rogue
Cumulative upkeep- Discard a card at random.
Whenever you discard a card at random, each opponent discards a card at random.
Madness-0
2/1

Additional comments welcome.

[Tekkactus]

Made some small wording changes as per suggestions in this thread.

@ Cashew: Emineo is hella broken. Soul Warden and Deathgreeter both make Turn 1 infinite life combos. Even though the token is Legendary, free token generation is a dangerous road to go down.

[JakeKessler]

Pram, you might just change it to "if three or more creatures you control were regenerated this turn." Creatures don't regenerate unless they would be destroyed, even if the ability to regenerate them was played; this is less text, and allows you to get your dude out against failed kills spells as well as mere damage.

[evol_intentions]

@ Evol: Sabotage doesn't work how you think. Because the effect you're adding targets, it will look for a new target for that clause. You can make your opponent kill anything, not just what he/she already targeted. This works like Splice; if you splice a Horobi's Whisper (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74590) onto Rend Flesh (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=75259), you kill two creatures, not one. There is virtually no difference between how Sabotage is worded now, and "When an opponent casts an instant or sorcery spell targeting a creature, you may discard a card. If you do, cast Sabotage without paying its mana cost."


actually im afraid that is not the case as the way splice works:As you play an Arcane spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's effects to that spell

you splice before a card has hit the stack, ie before it has been played, so there is still time to choose new targets for that spell if it needs new targets. however the way my spell works it adds its effects to a card on the stack which means targets have already been chosen and locked on. a spell that has been played is cannot suddenly have new targets, so therefore mine does work as intended.

[Lokenta Mirana]

Punkrockanarchymagic: I put up Delirium just as a different way that free casting could be done. You're correct that you can't play her for free - no more than you could play Cashew's Emineo for free - but through her you could play a myriad of things for free, not to mention giving your opponent the same allowance. In any case, it was more something that had simply come to mind, not something I had seriously considered putting in the contest.

In terms of the White Sister. I never intended her to be a spirit, wraith, ghost, or any such ethereal being. She's more an albino, someone born, physically, white.

In terms of Crazed Youth. It looks like a fun card. I like the take on cumulative upkeep, though I've been seeing a lot of those lately, as well as the hommage to Basking Rootwalla

Ah, and finally, I found the quote currently on Delirium quite some time ago, but have not been able to find it again, to get its author. Perhaps someone has seen it, or knows where it is from?

Lokenta Mirana

Edit: evol_intentions, if you attached this to Giant Growth it would read as: "Target creature gets +3/+3 until the end of turn. Destroy target creature, it can't be regenerated." I apologize, but that simply seems like it would allow the casting player to choose both targets separately, no?

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

@JakeKessler-


Pram, you might just change it to "if three or more creatures you control were regenerated this turn." Creatures don't regenerate unless they would be destroyed, even if the ability to regenerate them was played; this is less text, and allows you to get your dude out against failed kills spells as well as mere damage.

There's been some back and forth about this, and I have decided that the lethal damage wording should stay. Because there does not seem to be a concensus in this thread as to exactly when a creature is counts as having been regenerated, I'd rather err on the side of the alt cost being slightly wordier and slightly harder to play than concise and broken. Earlier in this thread, Luthervamplord suggested that by having the text 'leathal damage' on my card I would cause Arix a knipshon, but I can't understand how either could have a problem, as every card with indestructability has 'lethal damage' in its reminder text.

@evol_intentions-

Here's what I'd do with your Sabotage idea... not sure it would work, but...

Arcane Sabotage 4BB
Instant-Arcane
Splice onto a Nonarcane spell an opponent controls that targets a creature—Discard your hand. (As your opponent casts an Nonarcane spell that targets a creature, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's effects to that spell.)
Destroy all creatures targeted this turn.

This would make the card work much differetly, but I think would make more sense within the framework of a preexisting mechanic. You could splice other spells onto it to make it target something, and it could get spliced onto an aura your opponent casts. While it couldn't destroy a target creature if you cast it without some targeted effect in the mix (since Arcane Sabotage itself does not target), it could destroy multiple creatures if you cast it and have the proper support on the board, like a couple of Prodigal Sorcerers, for instance...

Having it worded so that it destroys all targeted creatures, it greatly increases the chances of the card gaining a 3 for 1 trade, or better, for free- hence the splice cost drawback.

It just really seems as though this wants to be spliced onto an opponent's spell. I'm not sure it's possible, but I thought I would bring it up.

[JakeKessler]

actually im afraid that is not the case as the way splice works:As you play an Arcane spell, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's effects to that spell

you splice before a card has hit the stack, ie before it has been played, so there is still time to choose new targets for that spell if it needs new targets. however the way my spell works it adds its effects to a card on the stack which means targets have already been chosen and locked on. a spell that has been played is cannot suddenly have new targets, so therefore mine does work as intended.


evol_intentions, if you attached this to Giant Growth it would read as:

"Target creature gets +3/+3 until the end of turn.
Destroy target creature, it can't be regenerated."

I apologize, but that simply seems like it would allow the casting player to choose both targets separately, no?

I'm with Lokenta. While you might be right that the moment has passed for naming an extra target, when the spell resolved, there's no reason it should use the same target for the added effect. What would happen, in that case, is that the spell would see it had at least one target and resolve. The original effect would happen, and then it would try to do the new effect but have no target for it at all, so nothing else would happen--like if a Branching Bolt (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=177602) lost its second target.

Nowhere is there anything to imply that the new effect would happen to the target of the original effect. The problem is that your effect is never "played" (or to use the new terminology, "cast".) Neither is it being copied from somewhere with targets already chosen. Neither is it, as you say, being added to a spell as that spell is being cast. No opportunity is being given for any player to choose a target for this portion of the effect. There's nothing to suggest it automatically uses the target of the old effect, and things would be worse if it did: Imagine attaching this to a spell that targets multiple creatures. How would it know which one to destroy? Would it destroy them all? Where does it say that on the card?

Here's how you could word Sabotage for it to do exactly what you want:

If you cast Sabotage, choose target creature.
Destroy all creatures targeted by this spell. They can't be regenerated.
Discard Sabotage: Add Sabotage's effects to target instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls that targets a creature.

Or:

Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated.
Discard Sabotage: Add the effect "Destroy all creatures targeted by this spell. They can't be regenerated" to target instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls that targets a creature.

Or:

Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated.
Discard Sabotage: Destroy target creature if it's the target of an instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls.


Splice onto an instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls that targets a creature—Discard Arcane Sabotage. (As your opponent casts an instant or sorcery spell that targets a creature, you may reveal this card from your hand and pay its splice cost. If you do, add this card's effects to that spell.)
Destroy all creatures that were the targets of instant and/or sorcery spells this turn.

This has a slightly different effect when hard-cast, but will also do what you want.

[Lokenta Mirana]

If I may put my advice for the wording in, I might suggest this:


Destroy target creature, it can't be regenerated.
Whenever an opponent casts an instant or sorcery spell that targets exactly one creature, you may discard ~. If you do, destroy that creature, it can't be regenerated.

Lokenta Mirana

[ThunderHog]

Behold... This is what happens when the creative mind of ThunderHog collides with the brilliant cunning of Ryuzaki...

Warning, do not click the spoiler if you do not believe you can handle extreme amounts of pure awesomeness: http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d71/ThunderHog/Serious%20creations/LoomingCandlelight.jpg

[Ryuzaki]

I think it's pretty, and am happy with the end result myself.

This time, I will actually post an entry, how wonderful.

[JakeKessler]

@ Ryuzaki: Go ahead and make it an instant. It's such a tiny effect, it won't be overpowered. Making it instant speed will give it better interaction with more things.

@ Hog: Why not simply say "If you don't counter this, target player loses the game right now"? Also, doesn't making something cost mana to suspend break the contest instructions that it be usable with zero mana?

=D Just sayin'.

[Lokenta Mirana]

Luthervamplord: I got bored, and attempted to find you something that would work for a 'Dark Heart' dragon. I didn't quite find what I'm looking for, but I tried changing some colours on one I thought looked quite nice.

This is what I ended up with:

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo21/LokentaMirana/forestoffrightbyjennifermilleralter.jpg

The original is by Jennifer Miller, and can be found here (http://nambroth.deviantart.com/art/Forest-of-Fright-87475073).

Whether or not you decide to use it, I had fun putting it together.

In any case, however, goodnight.

Lokenta Mirana

[evol_intentions]

I'm with Lokenta. While you might be right that the moment has passed for naming an extra target, when the spell resolved, there's no reason it should use the same target for the added effect. What would happen, in that case, is that the spell would see it had at least one target and resolve. The original effect would happen, and then it would try to do the new effect but have no target for it at all, so nothing else would happen--like if a Branching Bolt (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=177602) lost its second target.

Nowhere is there anything to imply that the new effect would happen to the target of the original effect. The problem is that your effect is never "played" (or to use the new terminology, "cast".) Neither is it being copied from somewhere with targets already chosen. Neither is it, as you say, being added to a spell as that spell is being cast. No opportunity is being given for any player to choose a target for this portion of the effect. There's nothing to suggest it automatically uses the target of the old effect, and things would be worse if it did: Imagine attaching this to a spell that targets multiple creatures. How would it know which one to destroy? Would it destroy them all? Where does it say that on the card?

Here's how you could word Sabotage for it to do exactly what you want:

If you cast Sabotage, choose target creature.
Destroy all creatures targeted by this spell. They can't be regenerated.
Discard Sabotage: Add Sabotage's effects to target instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls that targets a creature.

Or:

Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated.
Discard Sabotage: Add the effect "Destroy all creatures targeted by this spell. They can't be regenerated" to target instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls that targets a creature.

Or:

Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated.
Discard Sabotage: Destroy target creature if it's the target of an instant or sorcery spell an opponent controls.



This has a slightly different effect when hard-cast, but will also do what you want.

i think your right on this one so will change it to discard sabotage: add sabotages effect to an instant or sorcery spell...
target creature cant regenerate this turn.
destroy all creatures sabotage targets.

and to pram, you cant splice onto a card you dont control because splice happens in the steps before the spell is cast, reveal, declaring intentions and targets and paying cost and all that whatnot, whereas you doont get priority untill the spell has been played, so you miss the chance to play it in that step.

[ThunderHog]

@ Hog: (1)Why not simply say "If you don't counter this, target player loses the game right now"? (2)Also, doesn't making something cost mana to suspend break the contest instructions that it be usable with zero mana?

=D Just sayin'.

Note 1: Because that's not the proper wording. :D

Note 2: Not at all. Suspend is an ability - when you pay mana to suspend something, you're only paying mana to play the ability. When the last time counter is removed, that's when you play the spell. It's not the most creative way to do it, but it works.

[death by aggro]

Good to see some old faces getting in on this:). Brilliant entry Ryu, but as Jake suggested you should probably make it an instant. The flavor text is really what puts it over the top;).

[JakeKessler]

@ Chrome_Kaldra: Way overpowered, both at normal casting cost and at alternate cost. For the mana, compare Sangrite Surge (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=176438); and that's at sorcery speed, without haste and without any alternate casting cost.

As for the alternate cost, consider that on turn 1 I can put it on a Valiant Guard (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184984) or Treefolk Harbinger (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=139495) or Ornithopter (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129665) or Phyrexian Walker (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3600) and get in for 8. Multiples of this card can easily win the game on turn 2.

My instinct is to up the penalty damage here to make it harder to find a cheap creature to put it on, but it might just be that +4/+0 and DS and haste are a little much to get all for "free".

Even +1/+0 with haste and double strike is a cool trick if it's free, and much less OP. I'd say that's even appropriate for the mana cost... Maybe that's the way to go.

(P.S. When you re-render, make sure you fix a typo in the first paragraph. You want to say "rather than pay" and right now it says "rather that pay".)

[SalutCapitaine]

I changed the wording of my Tranguild's cave (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showthread.php?p=298998#post298998)(the land version). What do you think?

:)

[JakeKessler]

@ Salut: Get rid of flash. Having flash does nothing for your card; you can't play it from your hand, and when it unsuspends it won't care whether it has flash or not, it will try to play right then.

When it unsuspends - it's not the rules of spell timing that could interfere, it's the rules about playing lands. The game rules say you can only play lands on your turn and only one per turn. When the land unsuspends, if it is your turn and you haven't already played a land, you will automatically play the land from exile and it will come into play. On the other hand, if it's not your turn or if you already played a land that turn, the land won't be able to be played and will stay exiled. Flash and suspend don't get around this, because again, it's not a rule about timing of spells but a rule about playing lands.

[MechMage]

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/4is111/KurzantheDuelist.jpg

How do I word this using the new system? Thx.

[compy286]

dude i really like the duelist, i actually thought about somthing like that but decided not to. Sounds a little wordy though.

What do you guys think about the Opal avenger.

[Lokenta Mirana]

My attempt at Kurzan, the Duelist's wording:


First Strike
During an opponent's declare defender's step, if a legendary creature is attacking you, you may cast ~ without paying its mana cost. If you do, ~ blocks that legendary creature. If that legendary creature has any ability that prevents ~ from blocking it, that creature loses that ability until the end of combat.

This does allow him to actually damage creatures with protection from him, as a note. As another, this could be worded improperly. I might suggest the Wording Correction Shop.

Lokenta Mirana

[Streetz]

@compy - you might want to attach your pic to the post and then [img] it using the www.magicdeckvortex.com web address so we can see the card without having to click the link.

Just a suggestion... I tried to fix it for you, but was too lazy. :P

[George G]

@Cashew: Besides everyone having different sleeves and having to strip them all off just to use your card, also assuming your 4 cards because you search your library once and can get all four, it requires that you can trust your opponent to tell you when they drew it. I can just see you getting through an entire game only to see your opponent drew 2 of them without telling you. Even if not purposefully cheating but just out of ignorance. Also if you opponent timespirals or uses sensei's top or the million other things he never has to show you he's drawing them and can keep putting it back in his library. A side note too, I have lost so many cards in real life from people control magicing and whatever and then forgetting to get them back, let alone having them in their library. I don't know, I respect the ground that you breaking but it feels icky

@jake: I tried adding a card to an existing cycle last month and it wasn't very appreciated.

@aglamm: If this card costed 5 mana it would still be broken.

@Compy: Affinity for enchantments still doesn't make your card "free", it can't reduce your WW cost.

@Luther: thanks for the land cap thing, appreciate it.

[JakeKessler]

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq304/4is111/KurzantheDuelist.jpg

How do I word this using the new system? Thx.

I'm basing this of Qasali Ambusher (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=174869) and Ætherplasm (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=96924).

If a legendary creature is attacking you, you may cast Kurzen the Duelist without paying its mana cost and as though it had flash. If you do, Kurzen the Duelist comes into play blocking a legendary creature that's attacking you.

Worded this way, the ability is state-based and can be used anytime that you are being attacked by a legendary creature. (You need the last few words in case more than one legend is attacking you at once.)


@Compy: Affinity for enchantments still doesn't make your card "free", it can't reduce your WW cost.

This is correct. Instead of Affinity, why not just say:

CARDNAME costs W less for each enchantment you control.

[Michael_Zeora]

First Strike
During an opponent's declare defender's step, if a legendary creature is attacking you, you may cast ~ without paying its mana cost. If you do, ~ blocks that legendary creature. If that legendary creature has any ability that prevents ~ from blocking it, that creature loses that ability until the end of combat.

Actually you don't need that last Sentence because of the Flash Foliage can block Dimir Infiltrator so drop the last Sentence and you're golden.

[Tekkactus]

Actually you don't need that last Sentence because of the Flash Foliage can block Dimir Infiltrator so drop the last Sentence and you're golden.

Right, but he wants to be able to get around Protection. Even if he's blocked the damage will still be prevented.

[Cashew]

If a legendary creature is attacking you, you may cast Kurzen the Duelist without paying its mana cost and as though it had flash. If you do, Kurzen the Duelist comes into play blocking a legendary creature that's attacking you.

Judging from Elvish piper's new wording: "You may put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield." and Predatory whatever "Whenever an opponent casts a spell, reveal the top card of your library. If it’s a creature card, put it onto the battlefield" You might even be able to simplify it to this:

If a legendary creature is attacking you, you may put Kurzen the Duelist from your hand onto the battlefield. If you do Kurzen enters the battefield blocking a legendary creature that is attacking you.

The real way to word it is pretty much up in the air until the gatherer gets updated to be honest.

[JakeKessler]

If a legendary creature is attacking you, you may put Kurzen the Duelist from your hand onto the battlefield. If you do Kurzen enters the battefield blocking a legendary creature that is attacking you.

Either this way or the way I put would work, they just do different things. My way echoes Qasali Ambusher in that you're still casting a spell even though you aren't paying. Elvish Piper is putting something directly onto the battlefield.

[NeoMagicwarrior]

Card up...although later than usual

[Lokenta Mirana]

Michael Zeora, a good catch. I wasn't aware it could work that way. However, considering the Oracle wording on Flash Foliage I might suggest:


First Strike
During combat after blockers are declared, if a legendary creature is unblocked and attacking you, you may put ~ from your hand onto the battlefield blocking that creature. [If you do, until the end of combat, damage dealt by ~ can't be prevented]

But I see you have a number of versions to choose from, so I'm probably just typing to air now.

In any case, more people have cards up.

CoglineErro, I've already remarked on your card.

AlasterEisaroh, I think it's mechanically brilliant. An optional pact style payment, which is a double-edged knife all of its own. Flavour-wise, I don't see it being an Elemental, however. The image looks as though you should call it simply a Human Wizard or a Human Shaman.

NeoMagicWarrior. It's hard to judge mana costs for countering a spell that has an option of not costing anything. The only thing close to that which we have right now is Pact of Negation, and that costs 3UU (albeit, on the next turn). Despite your card requiring another to actually have it revealed, there are many cards that do that. And, incidentally, more cards that exile cards.

Lokenta Mirana

[George G]

Ok, I'm going to live out my fantasy as a judge......sorry to offend anyone, im just bored....




pram:
Aesthetics 5/5, looks like a giant troll should.
Artistry4/5, there is a weird border in the corners, looks outta place, other than that its a troll.
Creativity5/5 it's unique
Balance6/10 it's a tough loophole, unless it has a lot of help it may as well be straight up mana costed
Design6/10 again the contest is freebie, and more often than not this wont be free.
26/35

Luther:
astcs4/5 instead should be rather
artistry5/5 dead animal is rough but sure
creativity4/5 Legendary dragon isn't groundbreaking but worth 4 points
balance 7/10 if ran in mono-black its a free 4/3 on turn 3...
design7/10 the free part is mono colored but green in cost, green black dragon is streching the color pie
27/35

final press
astcs4/5 instead should be rather, you have "exile from game"
artistry5/5 zombies...check
creativity3/5 its a zombie...
balance10/10 i like it, i do
design8/10 kinda printable if they didnt return to your hand...zombies=graveyardish
30/35

YWN
good times

Evol
astcs5/5yep
artistry5/5 looks good
creativity2/5arcane splice without arcane slicish
balance10/10 fun, very fun, "no giant growth for you!"
design9/10 ability would probably be keyworded(besides spicing) and we cant make our own keyword in this contest, but only docking a point.
31/35

Salutcapitaine (land one)
its a mess, get rid of the flash, it does nothing, capitilize "Add", the 2 in suspend needs a bubble, zero creativity(its a land that adds a mana)....

b4g3r
astcs4/5wordy cramped
artisty5/5
creative3/5 red/black creature with a power of 5....
balance4/10 ouch, first turn play WITH cascade for 8!!! uggh
design4/10 not feelin cascade on a hellrunner
20/35

death by aggro
astcs5/5 good job
artistry5/5 mm hmm
creative3/5its another fungus using spores
balance10/10 i honestly am not familier enough with the fungi and am not taking the time to research that i would if this was my responsibilty soooo ill trust you
design 9/10if hes the gaurdian, why is he stealing their spores??

Cashew
I already said my thoughts on the cursed tome, i'm not a fan of the illusion either, but the hero...

astcs4/5 the flavor text runs in the p/t box...i have this prob too on magic editor, frustrating
artistry5/5 Beautiful
creative5/5 i'm biased here because of the explanation you gave, if i didn't know your "story" behind it, it wouldn't be AS breathtaking, which it is.
Balance10/10 Wonderful
Design10/10 I'm awestruck, It's your talent at its best. Simple, and intricate at the same time. I think it's brilliant.
34/35

kingez
asts4/5 same prob as cashew, flavor runs into p/t box
art5/5 its a water thingy
creative3/5 ehh its a big guy with shroud trample, or if u please a steal 2 land ....
balance7/10 i have a new respect for hog and shew, i have to put in words why this is blah...tough
design5/10 its all over, its 2 different cards, its wild and chaotic and why? why would i want to give you this? for two lands? why does it have shroud?

George G
it sucks

Umexx
ats5/5nothing outta place
art5/5looks like a nightmare rider would
creative1/5 no you made a card called nightmare, only its now an enchantment
balance7/10 free part only works on nightmares, bleh
design4/10 a rider does not translate into enchantment, rider=creature, tolsimir wolfblood

kamahl's disciple
atcs5/5 sweet expansion symbol
art5/5wolf spirit lookin guy? yep
creative3/5 tiny wither guy,
balance 4/10 first turn free 2/3 wither? eeeks
design8/10 its a printable idea, needs toyed with but i like it

Jake
atsc5/5 also nice symbol
art4/5 not mysterious but what do i know?
creative2/5 part of completed cycle, but hey
balance9/10 could be almost broken in a high tide but i don't want to take the time to argue my point so have a 9, don't say i never gave you anything
design9/10 doesn't feel perfect, again im being lazy....sorry

aglamm
2/5 instead should be rather...blah blah make it modern
art5/5 sure
creative1/5 a free counterspell....
balance -1/10 see counterspell make yours worse than this, then come back
design...look this is a great idea if the mana cost was higher...make a counterspell that has an added abilty but make the mana cost insanely high and make it hard to pay the "free" way. it could work someday

mrayner
goblin
asts 3/5 sacrifice is spelled wrong "RED" shouldn't be capped
art4/5 goblin looks blackish
creative3/5patched relentless and fanatic with a kobold
balance....it is kinda underpowered?
design i plead the fifth

akashmar
asts5/5 nice
art5/5 great
creative3/5 call of herdish to be polite
balance 8/10 7mana for the first is kinda slow...ehhh 8 points is generous but i like you
design9/10 great card, should be uncommon...my opinion, which doesn't count

Lokenta mirana
sister
asts5/5Eye catching
art5/5wonderful
creative3/5 white token generators have been done
balance7/10 underpowered, when will it be exiled form your hand? and if it does get exile we still have to wait 4 turns?
design6/10 how is this not legendary? why is it snow? 5 mana for 4 1/1s?

Streetz
asts5/5good
art5/5creepy
creative5/5 its a little whirling dervishy but your the owner! Cheers!
balance10/10 2mana, 5 abilities...still feels right
design9/10 useless with only 1, but ill let it slide....im a suckup

moving on...

ryuzaki
asts4/5 looks too plain with vague art and no cost and not modern set
art2/5im not seeing that whole change of fate thing here
creative4/5 yeah ok
balance9/10 its a bit much compared to brainstormish stuff, plus graveyard manipulation junk, but heres a 9 anyway
design6/10 it says rather than pay the mana cost..........what mana cost???

Chrome kaldra
asts 5/5..
art 5/5 works
creative3/5 blood lust...
balance2/10 for me this is just sick...forget about goblin war buggy dealing 12 damage on turn 2....its nasty all around
design8/10 a version of this thats cleaned up massively could see print, 8 points is generous how it is now though, but having said all that it is eye catching and fun

compy, opals have been done, DQ for not being free, take jakes advice on it, try toying with this or making another idea

NEOMAGICWARRIOR,

I am not biased against you
in fact i don't think anyone is biased against you

now...

asts5/5
art1/5 i see clipart of flowers....
creative1/5 again......a free counterspell, really??
balance.....so i top these out and get them for free, but my opponent knows i have it waiting now...6/10
design......yeah its gotta be a conspiracy against you....


This is infinitly harder than it looks....Props to TH and Cashew for all their hard work, Thank you for all you did Cashew, and Thank you to TH for all your doing...I didn't research anything either, i didn't take time to find the right words why im docking a point here or there, and i had no deadline or people complaing.

I challenge all of you...especially the ones not happy with judging recently to do this.

Just finding 30 ways to say "Aesthetics look good" will make you see the light.

[JakeKessler]

Hey Neo, I think you just won this contest. Nicely done!

The only thing I can think of you might change is the name... AEther is usually used to refer to the void you summon creatures out of, and it's flavored towards things that interact with creature spells most often. I admit that's pretty nitpicky though, and I see you making the scoring round even with it.

Guess I'm going to have to work harder...

[Umexx]

Changing submission, hope you like it more :ohnoes:

[SalutCapitaine]

Trying something new again... any thought?

Bones Double (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showthread.php?p=298998#post298998)

Thanks:)

[GG Crono]

After some delays (my original idea was too similar to one of Cashew's), I have posted the first draft of my entry! Any thoughts?

[Kamahl's Disciple]

kamahl's disciple
atcs5/5 sweet expansion symbol
art5/5wolf spirit lookin guy? yep
creative3/5 tiny wither guy,
balance 4/10 first turn free 2/3 wither? eeeks
design8/10 its a printable idea, needs toyed with but i like it

Thanks for the critique, because of how you scored me, I decided to edit my submission in order to fix the most glaring problem with my card, and slightly tone it down a bit. I hope it is more acceptable now.

@Umexx: - I like this card a lot, I think its balanced, I would stick with your current design. My only gripe is that some of your wording is off in the first paragraph. Here's what I would put: -

"When Soullink Golem enters the battlefield, choose a creature on the battlefield target opponent controls. If you can't, sacrifice Soullink Golem."

@SalutCapitaine: - I also like this entry, there is some punctuation mistakes though. There needs to be a comma after "battlefield", and before "you may". There also needs to be a period after "Regenerate Bones Double".

@GG Crono: - I think you need to make the cost more pricey on this card in order to make this card fair.

[JakeKessler]

I did some cosmetic stuff with mine--tweaked the name and flavor text.

[aglamm]

well some things to fix, but it won't take too much, so don't worry about it.

[Lokenta Mirana]

Artifactor, I might suggest adding haste to your Myr. It would make paying its alternate cost much more useful.

Lokenta Mirana

[Mrayner]

mrayner
goblin
asts 3/5 sacrifice is spelled wrong "RED" shouldn't be capped
art4/5 goblin looks blackish
creative3/5patched relentless and fanatic with a kobold
balance....it is kinda underpowered?
design i plead the fifth

Confused as to the Bolded part.
Spelling errors being corrected
I can see how you would see creativeness lacking, I didn't even realize the connection to the cards you made until you pointed it out, I truly thought it was original :( silly me.
The goblin looks blackish because he is being fired out of a dark place (cannon?) so the darkness makes him look black.
Underpowered kinda, Idk...I find him to be a useful card. Good on his own, able to make a difference on his own, but also deadly when combined with other cards.

[SalutCapitaine]

@SalutCapitaine: - I also like this entry, there is some punctuation mistakes though. There needs to be a comma after "battlefield", and before "you may". There also needs to be a period after "Regenerate Bones Double".


Thanks!

[Luthervamplord]

Having reconsidered my card's power level a little (after a bit of play-testing) I felt he needed a re-jigger. With this in mind, please see new submission for comments:

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn363/Luthervamplord/Cards%20Images/DelacroixDarkwoodScion.jpg

My reasoning is this; Half-life costs/effects are seriously Black in the pie, Zombie's make for a good fit to decay and "new" life spawned from destruction and finally the piece of artwork seemed to fit the bill with the overall impact I wanted.

Comments?

P.S: The Green is for the Land-sack for Life ability; it doesn't fit Black under any sun (I checked) but it does cover Black+Green (Or Black+Green+White if you go further back)

[GG Crono]

@Luther: I like it! Not much else to add (except that you forgot a comma), I just wanted to say that. :)

[JakeKessler]

@ Luther:

Sort of Dark Heart of the Wood (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89017) meets Blighted Shaman (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=15385)?

Also, just so you're aware:

1 (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159824) 2 (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=19770) 3 (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=10510)

These are the only three cards with the creature type Dragon who don't have flying or a way to get flying. Two of them weren't printed as Dragons, but were errata'd to match the art; the third was in Portal Three Kingdoms which didn't have flying in the set (it used horsemanship instead since it was based around the Three Kingdoms mythos).

I'm not saying you can't have a Dragon that doesn't fly, but it's pushing the flavor limits a little bit. I could see Hog docking you some points.

Just some food for thought. Oh, and one other thing; the art shows the Dragon breathing fire, but none of his abilities reflect that. Not sure if you want to do something about that or not.

[Lokenta Mirana]

Artifactor, I might suggest increasing the mana cost of your Myr. The only 10/10 that exists without a downfall is Progenitus, and while it may also have protection from anything and no-graveyard folly, your Myr has first turn savagery and full on destruction capabilities (not to mention the ever important 'free' casting ability).

I would suggest a converted mana cost somewhere in the range of 11. So, 7BBRR?

Kinghonkey, I might suggest changing one bit of wording on your Facsimilate. I think it would read better as: "If you have cast another Aura this turn, you may cast ~ without paying its mana cost."

Lokenta Mirana

[p-chan]

Woah ... I think I missed some discussion ... XP. In any case ... FEEDBACK!!!

@Punkrock: It screams "Trample! I should trample!!!"

@Luther: I think this shouldn't be casteable for free in monoblack. Maybe you should have the player to control ... 2 swamps and 2 forests?

@FinalPress: These kind of little black graveyard dwellers usually have haste; have you considered adding it?

@YWN: OMFG! I thought that Ultimatums were the ultimate Timmy creation ... In any case, shouldn't the permanents be red, black or green? I think that monoblue shouldn't be able to cast this via sacrificing Scornful Egotist and a few merfolks.

@Evol: Great card, but the flavour makes me think that it destroys artifacts. Maybe a change of name and art would be good.

@SalutCapitaine: Black usually exiles the cards he uses from the graveyard.

@bager: Quite overpowered. In turn 1, you can cast this and ... an ultimatum?

@Cashew: I don't like the Cursed Tome idea for two reasons:
1) In a Magic game, everyone should be able to verify at any moment that everything's going well, I mean, that noone is cheating. That's why, when you use Worldly Tutor you must show the card, so everyone can verify you searched for a creature. With cursed tome, you can draw it and think "I won't cast it; if anyone asks, it was in my starting hand."
2) You can't have a card you don't own in your library. This is only for historical reasons, I know that it wouldn't hurt the game, but ... hell, if last month we were arging about if George should create a changeling artifact creature, much less you should break this non-writen rule.
As for the other two concepts, I like them both, but I think that Emineo is more original; you should reword it to make an activated ability, but for the rest it's a great card.

@Umexx: Hum ... this can be easily transformed into a "Remove target creature from the game" for 0 mana; I think it's a little overpowered.

@Jake: Great card, but looking at the abilities, i would make it a "Leyline", and put an accurated flavour text. Something like "Leyline of the Mind", and "Where the infinite and the brief converge."

@Aglamm: Man ... this is a counterspell with a cantrip, and a way to cast it for free. Think again ...

@Lokenta: I like the goblin, but it should be uncommon at least.

@Streetz: Don't ask me why, but I feel that this card should be able to return from the graveyard ...

@ChromeKaldra: Ur ... first strike would be right ... trample would be right ... but man, double strike is not right. It's a swing of 8+2*creature's power for free!

@Mechmage: Please, correct the font of your card! I love it, and it would be a shame for you to lose points in Artistry.

@Masterpie: I like the card (It's obviously Golgari), but you have to review the wording. Also, vigilance is not a typical ability of green/black.

@Artifactor: Wuf ... quite overpowered. The ability should be more expensive, and the creature itself should have less power/toughness. How about of a 7/7, and the ability cost 4BBRR, just like itself?

And well, mine's up. It's designed to help cards like Corrupt and Armored Ascension, and to disrupt your opponent's mana base. Any comments would be welcome!

[NeoMagicwarrior]

@Lokenta Mirana: people dont see pact coming. This is revealed, so you know it is there.

@ GeorgeG: you cant "top" them out. They have to be REVEALED, which is very different from being looked at.

@Jake: aether refers to the gateway between worlds. although many aether cards have to do with creatures, there are those that do not. AEther in this sense is being used as a noun, such as the AEther literally denying your spell entrance.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@P-Chan: - This is a neat card, this can have many uses in multiplayer, especially in two-headed giant. I can also see the swampwalk shenanigans this card can create.

[Lokenta Mirana]

NeoMagicWarrior, your card doesn't necessarily have to be revealed. If you exile it, you can still play it, without it being revealed and for free. There are lots of cards that exile cards from your hand, and even more that do so from your graveyard (which would then allow it to be played again).

The only way I can see it being able to be used once would be to put a counter on it when you reveal it, and then check for the counter as it's exiled. The counter should (though you'd have to check with someone who knows better) come off of the card when it changes zones, otherwise you can simply tell people to remove it.

Lokenta Mirana

[p-chan]

@NeoMAgicWarrior: I've been thinking, and ... Relic of Progenitus + Aether Denial = infinite free counters. Man, even the powerful "countertop" combo relies on luck ...

EDIT - I think that Lokenta's idea is quite good.

If you reveal ~ from anywere, exile it with a denial counter on it.
As long as ~ is exiled with a denial counter on it, you may play it without paying it's mana cost.
I think it should do the trick; I'm pretty sure that the counter doesn't go with the card to the graveyard, but ... anyone could confirm?

[JakeKessler]

@ p-chan: I like your card. A lot. The flavor, the aesthetics, the balance are all right for an Eventide card.

A few nitpicks:

- Swamp and Plains should be capitalized. (See Urborg (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=131005), et al.)
- You need to clear up the language in the first paragraph. I recommend either "If you cast a spell that was both black and white this turn" or "If you cast a black spell and a white spell this turn," depending on which you mean.
- Also in the first sentence, I'm pretty sure the past tense of cast is cast, not casted.
- The title could be better. How does hexing a land turn it into a Plains? Also, not that it needs to, but it doesn't have much to do with the card Hex (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=89059).



If you reveal ~ from anywere, exile it with a denial counter on it.
As long as ~ is exiled with a denial counter on it, you may play it without paying it's mana cost.

I think it should do the trick; I'm pretty sure that the counter doesn't go with the card to the graveyard, but ... anyone could confirm?

+1/+1 counters don't stay on a creature card when it goes to a graveyard, and time counters clearly don't stay on a suspended card when you Riftsweeper (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=130353) it into a library. I don't think counters can jump zones.

[NeoMagicwarrior]

*Brokenness Fixed*

i knew that there had to have been a bug in it somewhere.

[Lokenta Mirana]

p-chan, might I suggest making your card a gold? Hybrid is generally something that allows it to be played in either a white or black deck. However, this does two things that say to me it's for a deck that's both black and white:

It makes the land both a Swamp and a Plains (which sounds grammatically very very poor, but in any case).
Its free cost requires both a black card and a white card to be played.

This doesn't seem very hybrid. Changing land types in general is more blue/green anyway, but the flavour of the Aurora seems to make it work.

Lokenta Mirana

[JakeKessler]

New idea.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/SpiritofVengeance.png

[Lokenta Mirana]

Jake Kessler, why does the Spirit of Vengeance have defender or flying? I can understand the vengeant alternate cost, the indestructibility, and the pre-combat damage, but the other two abilities make very little sense on the creature.

That being said, what makes this card black? The vengeant alternate cost and the pre-combat damage are both red. The indesctructibility is white. If you look up 'vengeance' or 'vengeant' on gatherer, the only black card is one to reanimate creatures (a self-performed vengeance). So what makes this card black?

Lokenta Mirana

[CoglineErro]

Mines done. (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showpost.php?p=299428&postcount=25)

[JakeKessler]

@ Cogline specifically, but also a general note on timing to everybody who's framing a card this way:

If your alternate-play condition is a triggered ability (ie, it starts with the words "When", "Whenever" or "At"), you don't need to say "as though it had flash", because the trigger is already providing a special one-time window that the card can be played in. Think about how suspend works: You can't normally play most cards during your upkeep, but the trigger that happens when the card unsuspends lets you do so, and without saying "as though it had flash". Your abilities work the same way.

You do need "as though it had flash," on the other hand, if you're using a state-based condition that lasts some duration. These kinds of conditions usually start with "As long as" or "If" and often involve the phrase "this turn". These conditions don't effect the timing of the spell by creating a special window for playing it, like triggered abilities; they only effect the free casting, so framing it this way you need "as though it had flash".

[mrrebel]

mine is finished.....critiques please

EDIT: version 2.0 posted

[JakeKessler]

Jake Kessler, why does the Spirit of Vengeance have defender or flying? I can understand the vengeant alternate cost, the indestructibility, and the pre-combat damage, but the other two abilities make very little sense on the creature.

That being said, what makes this card black? The vengeant alternate cost and the pre-combat damage are both red. The indesctructibility is white. If you look up 'vengeance' or 'vengeant' on gatherer, the only black card is one to reanimate creatures (a self-performed vengeance). So what makes this card black?

Lokenta Mirana

It flies for two reasons: It's a Spirit, and because I wanted it to be a better blocker. Do I need art that more clearly shows flight?

The defender is more complex... The direct-damage ability is taking the place of the creature's attack, so it doesn't make sense for it to have a regular attack as well. Ultimately, the creature ends up having a unique attack and effective "vigilance".

As for it being black, I'm pretty sure that black mana symbol was a typo. It shouldn't be black or a six-drop. I've fixed it accordingly. link (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/SpiritofVengeance.png)

[CoglineErro]

Fixed it JK, any other thoughts?

[JakeKessler]

@ Cogline: I really like it. It's solidly powerful both when hard-cast and as a freebie, and it sticks it to the LD player, which I can definitely get behind. It's not overpowered even as a freebie, as far as I'm concerned... serves me right for trying to Blight (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=159769) your land.

The text size isn't very pleasing to the eye... maybe you could come up with some flavor text?

@ mrrebel: First off, you need commas after "battlefield" and "spell". But that's a small thing. The big thing you need to understand is that your second ability probably isn't working the way you think.

As it's worded now, when you counter a spell, two things happen. First, a window opens to play the card for free right at that moment. Assuming the player doesn't do that, though, the second thing that happens is your card gains flash--not until EOT, but forever, and without having to reveal it, either. Besides being counter-intuitive, this is a gameplay issue--suppose I go to play my creature later during somebody else's turn and they call me on it. I'm in a position where I have to go "Well, it was in my hand three turns ago when I countered that spell," but I don't have any way to prove that's true. It also means I can cheat and play the card any time and just claim it was in my hand earlier when I countered something, and there's no way to catch me.

There's a few ways to fix this. If you're trying to only enable flash for the specific moment when the card is castable for free, there are two ways to do that:

1.
Whenever a spell or ability you control counters a spell, you may play CARDNAME without playing its mana cost.

2.
If a spell or ability you control countered a spell this turn, you may play CARDNAME without paying its mana cost and as though it had flash.

In the first version, the player will have a one-time opportunity to play the card for free at the moment the spell is countered. In the second version, the player can play the card for free any time instants can be played for the rest of the turn once they counter a spell.

Remember:


If your alternate-play condition is a triggered ability (ie, it starts with the words "When", "Whenever" or "At"), you don't need to say "as though it had flash", because the trigger is already providing a special one-time window that the card can be played in. Think about how suspend works: You can't normally play most cards during your upkeep, but the trigger that happens when the card unsuspends lets you do so, and without saying "as though it had flash". Your abilities work the same way.

You do need "as though it had flash," on the other hand, if you're using a state-based condition that lasts some duration. These kinds of conditions usually start with "As long as" or "If" and often involve the phrase "this turn". These conditions don't effect the timing of the spell by creating a special window for playing it, like triggered abilities; they only effect the free casting, so framing it this way you need "as though it had flash".

If you really are trying to enable the alternate cast for the rest of the game, though, there's an easy fix for that too.

3.
Whenever a spell or ability you control counters a spell, you may reveal CARDNAME in your hand. If you do, CARDNAME gains flash and for the rest of the game you may play CARDNAME without paying its mana cost.

P.S. I don't know if it's intentional or not, but take a look down on your copyright line... I should tell you that when you submit a card to this contest, it's an entry. An entree is a dish in a restaurant.

[Artifactor]

i hopr that recent edit will even the card out, thanks for the help

[final_press]

@FinalPress: These kind of little black graveyard dwellers usually have haste; have you considered adding it?

3/1 haste for 3 in mono black? Doesn't seem right to me, even with the chance your opponent may bounce it.

I'm just not happy with my card in general... it needs some serious work. Even if i don't change the mechanics of it, the wording needs some work as it's some ropey cross-breed of old and new MtG terminology. :(

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

Changed my entry... comments welcome.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@PRAM: - The art looks like she is an elemental, maybe you should change her to an elemental. If you do, change the order to Elemental Wizard Rogue. If you want to keep her human though, keep her as Human Wizard Rogue.

@ALEX Ryugami: - Reword the end as "without paying its mana cost. Sacrifice it at end of turn."

[p-chan]

@ p-chan: I like your card. A lot. The flavor, the aesthetics, the balance are all right for an Eventide card.

A few nitpicks:

- Swamp and Plains should be capitalized. (See Urborg (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=131005), et al.)
- You need to clear up the language in the first paragraph. I recommend either "If you cast a spell that was both black and white this turn" or "If you cast a black spell and a white spell this turn," depending on which you mean.
- Also in the first sentence, I'm pretty sure the past tense of cast is cast, not casted.
- The title could be better. How does hexing a land turn it into a Plains? Also, not that it needs to, but it doesn't have much to do with the card .
Hell, I'm having problems with the language :p. The first paragraph should be "If you cast a spell that was both black and white this turn", the word "Hex" doesn't mean what I thought, and true, the past tense of cast is cast ... I've always had problems with irregular verbs. In any case, thanks for the tips, as soon as I put my dirty hands in the MagicSetEditor I'll correct it.


p-chan, might I suggest making your card a gold? Hybrid is generally something that allows it to be played in either a white or black deck. However, this does two things that say to me it's for a deck that's both black and white:

It makes the land both a Swamp and a Plains (which sounds grammatically very very poor, but in any case).
Its free cost requires both a black card and a white card to be played.

This doesn't seem very hybrid. Changing land types in general is more blue/green anyway, but the flavour of the Aurora seems to make it work.

Lokenta Mirana
Well, I wanted to make an hybrid that rewards you for playing both it's colors, but that would be playable with only one of them; I mean:
- Why hybrid? Both white and black have cards that transform lands; a few, but they exist: Conversion or Cyclopean Giant are examples.
- Why black/white? It's effect is typical of blue/green, as you said, but it also exists in black/white; also, cards like Snakeform showed us that, in Shadowmoor and Eventide, weird things happen like green having a cantrip almost-creature-removal. I think these blocks are ruled more by flavour that by historical Magic rules, but in any case they don't ignore them. And the witch flavour of white/black in Eventide seems very accurate to me.

@JakeKessel: Spirit of Vengeance looks great to me, but ... why to make the weird thing of it being a wall and making him deal 3 damage to opponent each turn, instead of simply giving him "Vigilance"? Flying, indestructible, vigilance ... it seems quite vengeful to me, and with the relentlessness of the Boros Legion!:D

@CoglineErro: I love your card! Well, in fact I hate it, 'cause I usually run a land-destruction deck :p. In any case, for flavour purposes, and for monoblack don't being able to run this card, I would make it "Whenever a FOREST you control ..."

@mrrebel: It's an alternate cost too easy to play. Think that, with this, when you cast your force of will, you not only recover your 2 cards, but you also get a 2/3 into play! Maybe if it was a 1/1, or you only draw 1 card ...

@FinalPress: Akuta, Born of Ash, Ashen Ghoul and Crazed Skirge are just a few examples of little monoblack hasters. Yours costs only 3 mana, but it can be bounced, so I really think it's balanced.

@Punkrock: I can't see the flavour between the "madness" in the abilities (random card discarding) and the picture and the name (a fire mistress).

[mrrebel]

edited card....restart critiques

[JakeKessler]

Mrrebel, you're still making the same mistake. You don't need "as though it had flash" if you set it up as a triggered ability with "When". Think about the reminder text for suspend; you won't see the word flash anywhere.

[uber_panda]

Posted my entry, still a lot of stuff pending, like the name (which I originally wanted to name it Heautontimoroumenos, but like THAT was going to fit.)

Tips and hints very much appreciated.

[Punkrockanarchymagic]

Changed the art and flavor of my new entry, slightly changed the mechanics. More comments please!

[JakeKessler]

@ uber_panda: Couple of cosmetic things. "Its" in the first paragraph shouldn't have an apostrophe, and since we're wording it for M10 you want to say "cast" rather than "play".

As for the card itself... The alternate cast feels a lot like Avatar of Woe (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=108929) Redux. I like the feel of punishing you for your graveyard when it attacks, very black, but what does it have shroud? Black can get haste once in awhile if you squint, but it almost never gets shroud without a very strong flavor reason. Even something like protection would make more sense than shroud, as black has a history of cards like Black Knight (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=3826).

[uber_panda]

@JakeKessler: Ah, silly me, I've been so use to writing it in pre-M10 that I completely missed that.
I wanted to make something very much like Avatar of Woe, but except for everyone's graveyard it's just yours.
I thought that Shroud was a bit much too, but I made this card on a whim. To keep things more in flavor, I'll probably get rid of all the abilities it has and replace it with Shadow.
I'll just keep tweaking it to get something that's balanced and that I can enjoy.

[JakeKessler]

Here's something I cooked up today at work:


http://www.battleduck.com/catalog/images/cthulhu.jpg

The Unspeakable - 7UB
Legendary Creature - Horror Avatar - 9/9
If you reveal ~ from anywhere, put it onto the battlefield with a curse counter on it.
~ is unblockable.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if ~ has a curse counter on it, exile it. If you do, each player exiles the top twenty cards of his or her library. Then ~'s owner shuffles it into his or her library.
The stars are right, and the stars will be right again.

I can't see submitting that, but it was fun coming up with it.

[George G]

Well Jake, I would change the name...The Unspeakable

[JakeKessler]

Lol, I knew it sounded familiar. Honestly though I wouldn't enter that card... way too much text, and nowhere near as fun without the flavor text. Just an idea I had that I felt inclined to share. =D

[ALEX Ryugami]

@ALEX Ryugami: - Reword the end as "without paying its mana cost. Sacrifice it at end of turn."

I'm not sure about this since if I play Boggart Rusher in normal way, do I have to sacrifice it at end of turn???

[Luthervamplord]

Alright, altered the artwork slightly to give the "smoke" a more Miasma vibe - No actual flame there at all in my eyes but hey...

Also, made another change to alternate cost - went with a Eventide-style requirement; something along the lines of the mimics.

[p-chan]

Well, I've changed a little my submission following your tips. Also, in this days, I've come up with another idea:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/852/shadowcage.png (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/shadowcage.png/)

Name, art and flavour are provisional, but the idea is that. One of my concerns is if "put it into play" would be considered enough to fill the "freebie" condition of this month, as you're not casting it. Other concern is ... hell, it's a weird idea. What you guy think?

[HelloMyNameIsTimmy]

How do I enter the pictures? Thank you!

[final_press]

How do I enter the pictures? Thank you!

Have you read this (http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/showthread.php?t=17391)?

[MechanicalMind]

Mine's up...
comments/critiques are welcome ^_^
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/Prophet_it/Sleipnir.png

[ALEX Ryugami]

@MechanicalMind: Remove the "Play this ability only once each turn" because normally, it's ability happens only once unless you enchant yourself with Paradox Haze.

[JakeKessler]

@ Mechanical Mind: I think this is way overpowered. Not only do you get it for free, but it's put directly into play rather than cast--it can't even be countered.

The last ability has the potential to offset the power, except that the third ability is optional. I'd change the third ability to be mandatory, so if you don't keep putting things in the yard this guy will inevitably exile himself.

[Streetz]

Well, I've changed a little my submission following your tips. Also, in this days, I've come up with another idea:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/852/shadowcage.png (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/shadowcage.png/)

Name, art and flavour are provisional, but the idea is that. One of my concerns is if "put it into play" would be considered enough to fill the "freebie" condition of this month, as you're not casting it. Other concern is ... hell, it's a weird idea. What you guy think?

Don't forget to shuffle your library... :)

[Mrayner]

I agree with streetz about Shadow Cage, but all in all I can see this card being printed, hell, I would even play it...

The problem I see is that it is an underpowered enchantment version of Platinum Angel. So, first upkeep exile 2 cards, then 4 next turn and so on? hmmmm you'd run out of a deck very fast. Maybe have it "At the beginning of your upkeep, search your library for two cards and exile them. Shuffle you library."

With the ruling, maybe have it "cumulative upkeep - search your library for two cards and exile them. Shuffle your deck. You can't lose the game due to life being 0 or less." That way, instead of becoming a drawing tool, you now have a second chance card, giving you like another X amount of turns to try and turn the game around.

Just my thoughts :)

[MechanicalMind]

@ Mechanical Mind: I think this is way overpowered. Not only do you get it for free, but it's put directly into play rather than cast--it can't even be countered.

The last ability has the potential to offset the power, except that the third ability is optional. I'd change the third ability to be mandatory, so if you don't keep putting things in the yard this guy will inevitably exile himself.

thanks for the advice, i'll mod it asap :)

i also thought of some other cards, but my entry will still be Sleipnir (due to art copyright stuff...some of these illustrations are by steve argyle). here they are, to your judgement! :D
(Violent Clash was named "Another Ending", when i made it...then i changed the name but forgot the text box :P )

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5480/curseofwinter.png http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2699/newbeginning.png http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8278/thalaasaqueenoftheseas.png http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7725/violentclash.png

[Artifactor]

im going to change my submission, but i need to make sure this new card is worded right so i am going to post it here before posting it in the contest

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u168/Artifacter/GracefulSalvation-1.jpg

[Luthervamplord]

Lets see, you're thinking of cards such as Convalescence and Form of the Dragon here so let's meld wording into a cleaner version.

If you have 3 or less life, you may play ~ without paying its mana cost.
Your life total becomes 10.

You don't "gain" the life with this, so it overcomes effects such as Everlasting Torment, Flames of the God Hand, Lich, Rain of Gore, Stigma Lasher and a range of life-gaining based effects.

The problem becomes, you would never play this at cost because you'd just ensure it never happened. Also, being the crafty person I am - I'd ensure I can get that card out of my graveyard again and again and again; run White Black and never concern myself with Black's tendency to spend life as a resource every again.

So here's what I propose as a tweaked version:

Graceful Salvation 3WW
Sorcery
If an opponent controls a creature and you do not, you may play ~ without paying its mana cost.
Your life total becomes 10.
Exile ~ from the game.

The effect is much more balanced because the trigger is harder to achieve and it can't be recycled to abuse - IMHO it's much more balanced in this instance.

[ThunderHog]

[/I]You don't "gain" the life with this, so it overcomes effects such as Everlasting Torment, Flames of the God Hand, Lich, Rain of Gore, Stigma Lasher and a range of life-gaining based effects.
Actually, Luther, you're wrong here. Let's say that you're life total is 2 when you play this, technically, according to the game, you've gained 8 life. And any effects that trigger, activate, or even prevent this life gain WILL work.

The opposite is true too. Let's say that, for some reason, you play this card when you're at 15 life. The game will see you losing 5 life and any effects that trigger, activate, or even prevent this will work...

Let me find something to back this up... GAH!!! All of the gatherer rulings are down. Ask Arix or Hardtrack. They'll tell you. XD

[Lokenta Mirana]

As a small note: in Luthervamplord's wording, you should have cast instead of play. Beyond that, I fully agree with the wording.

If you have 3 or less life, you may cast ~ without paying its mana cost.
Your life total becomes 10.

Beyond that, why does this card even have a mana cost? I think it would make a much more interesting card if they had to be at such a low life level to play it.

Lokenta Mirana

[Luthervamplord]

Alright, TH - I checked the comp rulebook and here's what it said:

117.5. If an effect sets a player’s life total to a specific number, the player gains or loses the necessary amount of life to end up with the new total.

..... Ah son of a [expletive]! Alright then; it's not as cool as I thought it was but still - I stand by my revision.

[GRUNT]

Posting this here first to get criticism before finalising my submission ^_^.

I know that you rules boys are going to have a field day with this because there's a ton of wording which I'm not sure of:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/GRUNTS/DesperateDispersal4.jpg

I'm trying to find that balance between rules as they should be written on the card and limiting what needs to be written if possible, so that it looks neat.

The 'choose three instead' is what I'm particularly unhappy with, but I can't think of a 'cleaner' way to phrase it.

All of the 'or you lose the game' clauses are there to prevent 'cheating' (like if you have no lands in play or have no cards in your hand) :P.

[MechMage]

I'd word it like this:
Desperate Dispersal 0
Instant R
~ is blue.
As an additional cost to play ~, choose 2 -- pay UU; pay UU at the begining of you next upkeep. If you don't, you lose the game; or discard a blue card; target opponent draws a card.
Counter target spell.

[GRUNT]

Thanks! That templating makes a lot more sense! That said, I tend to think all the cards with '0' in their casting cost and needing to say that they're a certain colour look a little ugly, but then, if it's the format which makes the most sense for this card, then I'll use it.

I actually did consider the wording for Pact of Negation, except that it has a full stop - two sentences in one 'option' which doesn't look very aesthetically pleasing.

I'm wondering if I can shorten it to what you see on my mockup :S.

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@TethysOssian: - I like Primal Ooze a lot, it looks like a fun common for any deck that needs creature sacrifice. Since you need creatures in play for this card to work, I don't think it needs the -1 power setback, it being a 0/0 should be fine.

[p-chan]

Don't forget to shuffle your library... :)
XD, yeah, I missed that, thanx.

I agree with streetz about Shadow Cage, but all in all I can see this card being printed, hell, I would even play it...

The problem I see is that it is an underpowered enchantment version of Platinum Angel. So, first upkeep exile 2 cards, then 4 next turn and so on? hmmmm you'd run out of a deck very fast. Maybe have it "At the beginning of your upkeep, search your library for two cards and exile them. Shuffle you library."

With the ruling, maybe have it "cumulative upkeep - search your library for two cards and exile them. Shuffle your deck. You can't lose the game due to life being 0 or less." That way, instead of becoming a drawing tool, you now have a second chance card, giving you like another X amount of turns to try and turn the game around.

Just my thoughts :)
Well, I indeed came up with the card as a "second chance" card, but I wanted to limit it in some way. Platinum Angel is not casteable for free, and grants you true inmortality; Shadow Cage doesn't grant you immortality, it only grants you a few more turns in which you can't win the game. I think it's balanced, because the "freebie" ability is quite broken: "Yeah, I should be dead ... but no XD". Then, you have to find a way to return to 1+ life before the enchantment expires; and obviously, the cumulative upkeep is there for preventing it of becoming a stop of the game.

In any case, I would like to ask TH: Would this card's "put it into play for free" ability meet the requirements for this month? I mean, you're not casting it.

[JakeKessler]

In any case, I would like to ask TH: Would this card's "put it into play for free" ability meet the requirements for this month? I mean, you're not casting it.

I'd imagine this qualifies, but yea, I'd like to hear it from TH.

[MechanicalMind]

Okay, i modified my entry...here it goes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v113/Prophet_it/Sleipnir.png

[JakeKessler]

I still think you're making it more complicated than it needs to be, MM. Here's the text box I'd use:

If there are six or more creatures in your graveyard, you may cast Sleipnir without paying its mana cost.
At the beginning of your upkeep, exile a creature card in a graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Sleipnir. If you can't, exile Sleipnir.

The first strike and deathtouch don't really add much to the card (other than making it scarier to block or to attack into). I don't understand why an otherworldly horse attacks faster than other creatures or instantly kills whatever it touches. Maybe a more traditional black evasion ability, like fear? I believe that the horse causes fear in creatures that see it. Even flying would make some sense, since the original Nightmare (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=191319) (on which this card is surely based) has it.

Putting it into play without even casting it is broken, because you deny the control player the chance to counterspell. Green and even red get that sometimes, but black almost never.

"Play this ability only once..." needs to go. Triggered abilities aren't played, they trigger. It only happens once anyway. I'm pretty sure somebody already mentioned this... it might have even been me.

[ALEX Ryugami]

"Play this ability only once..." needs to go. Triggered abilities aren't played, they trigger. It only happens once anyway. I'm pretty sure somebody already mentioned this... it might have even been me.

That somebody is me :P and I agree with JakeKessler's wording on Sleipnir.

By the way, how about my card, guys??? Comments are welcome :)

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/BoggartRusher.jpg

[JakeKessler]

@ ALEX: Needs to say "if CARDNAME is in your hand" somewhere in the free-cast ability.

Edit

This idea just came to me. What do you guys think?


Frenetic Æther - :2mana::u::r:
Enchantment

If you reveal Frenetic Æther from anywhere, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.
Whenever a creature you control becomes the target of a spell or ability, flip a coin. If you win the flip, you may exile that creature. Otherwise, sacrifice it.
You may play cards exiled with Frenetic Æther without paying their mana costs.

[GRUNT]

That somebody is me :P and I agree with JakeKessler's wording on Sleipnir.

By the way, how about my card, guys??? Comments are welcome :)

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt174/ALEX_Ryugami/BoggartRusher.jpg

I considered something similar to that, except that the problem is that if you use it on the first turn, then it's 3 damage for free.

If you have a Spark Elemental, then you could do 6 damage on your first turn. Or more if you have 2 Boggart Rushers in your hand :O.

[ALEX Ryugami]

@JakeKessler: At initial version of this card, I included that sentence but it felt something unnecessary, or the opposite was true?? I like your card idea, but it could be broken if you combine it with Telepathy (or just spawning a deck idea?? :))

@GRUNT: Yes, that could be broken, but it's something fun if it hits at the first turn... for a few times :P

[JakeKessler]

Telepathy

Telepathy doesn't make me reveal my hand, although yes there are easy ways for me to do that. The relevant question--and the relevant question for almost every card in this contest--is "Does getting this for free break the card?"

Frenetic AEther doesn't seem that busted to me even if you get it in play for free--or am I missing something? It's essentially a non-tribal Frenetic Sliver (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=126011) that can't protect itself and lets the opponent counter the creatures coming back in.

[MechanicalMind]

Thank you guys for the advice on Sleipnir (whose name i took from Odin's mount, an eight-legged horse, that was to gain strength from the enemies its rider killed in battle...so i tried to make it look more...wicked).

@Jake: nice card. It could go jackpot with replicate or storm spells :P
@ALEX: man, this could be insane in some decks, i.e. when comboed with Enduring Renewal, you get 3 "free" damage each turn!

[JakeKessler]

@Jake: nice card. It could go jackpot with replicate or storm spells :P

How exactly?

[MechanicalMind]

How exactly?

opponent has some nice creatures on the battlefield, you throw some spells and then grapeshot/gigadrowse his army out of the game and use them to beat his poor face.

Quite tricky, to be honest.

[JakeKessler]

opponent has some nice creatures on the battlefield, you throw some spells and then grapeshot/gigadrowse his army out of the game and use them to beat his poor face.

Quite tricky, to be honest.


Frenetic Æther - :2mana::u::r:
Enchantment

If you reveal Frenetic Æther from anywhere, you may cast it without paying its mana cost.
Whenever a creature you control becomes the target of a spell or ability, flip a coin. If you win the flip, you may exile that creature. Otherwise, sacrifice it.
You may play cards exiled with Frenetic Æther without paying their mana costs.

Frenetic AEther only triggers for my creatures being targeted. It doesn't trigger for my opponents' creatures... I can't target them and steal them like some kind of bizarre Horobi, Death's Wail (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=78854)/Endless Whispers (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=50129) engine.

Although I kind of want to make a goofy Horobi-Whispers deck now.

[MechanicalMind]

Frenetic AEther only triggers for my creatures being targeted. It doesn't trigger for my opponents' creatures... I can't target them and steal them like some kind of bizarre Horobi, Death's Wail (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=78854)/Endless Whispers (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=50129) engine.

Although I kind of want to make a goofy Horobi-Whispers deck now.
Whoops, missed that.

[ALEX Ryugami]

Well, I have an idea for Boggart Rusher could be played if the number of cards in my hand are even, but don't know how to word it properly.

[uber_panda]

I figured it would be like:

EDIT: Oops, forgot about M10 rulings: "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have an even amount of cards in your hand, you may cast CARDNAME without paying its mana cost. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the end step."

[ALEX Ryugami]

@JakeKessler: Owch! Sometimes I refer broken as funny, which the true meaning is the opposite :P Yeah, I forgot that Telephaty only reveals opponent's hands, not mine. Revelation affects all players.

[Plaguefather]

hello, I'd like to say that im back, and my submission is up.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9117/necrodruidsorb3.jpg

[Lokenta Mirana]

Plaguefather, let me understand. You put four of these into your deck, and the moment you draw one of them, assuming you have at least two 1/1s on the field, you get eight 2/2s for free?

Now, I'm most definitely not the greatest when it comes to power levels (my entry for last month shows that quite well). However, this seems very powerful.

As a side note, you have a few wording issues.

Lokenta Mirana

[Plaguefather]

hmm, ill work on the power level a little bit,

PS What wording issues? Id like to know for future reference.

[Lokenta Mirana]

Wording for Necrodruid's Orb are as follows:


You may sacrifice two creatures rather than pay Necrodruid's Orbs's mana cost.
When Necrodruid's Orb enters the battlefield, put two 2/2 black and green Zombie creature tokens onto the battlefield.
Sacrifice Necrodruid's Orb: Choose one — You may put a card named Necrodruid's Orb from your hand onto the battlefield; or search your library for a card named Necrodruid's Orb and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
Wording à la Blazing Shoal, Icatian Crier, Cryptic Command, Angel's Herald, and (simply to ascertain) Academy Researchers.

Lokenta Mirana

[Streetz]

Can anyone help me and confirm if the wording on my card is correct and/or offer any feedback? Thank you in advance.

http://magicdeckvortex.com/vbforums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2299&stc=1&d=1246668122

[Lokenta Mirana]

Streetz, one must always remember to differentiate between card types and card names. Also, as this contest has asked to have the cards in M10 standard, so will this be.


Trample, protection from white
When Orhoricon is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you may put its counters on target creature named Orhoricon.
Sacrifice Orhoricon: Put two +1/+1 counters on target creature named Orhoricon.
If you control a creature named Orhoricon, you may cast Orhoricon without paying its mana cost.

This should work, à la Akron Legionnaire.

Lokenta Mirana

[Le_Mirage]

how about my card?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/Le_Mirage/11.jpg

Got some strict wording issue: can't say if it should be "search you hand for any number of number of cards named Question of When" of if "with the same name" should do the trick too.

Can't say if the card is broken or not, too: probably yes. In a deck that maximize the change to get two or more of it in hand, should be. Still, can't say if it would be far better than Time Stretch (two extra turn for 8UU) or than a plain 4x Time Warp (one extra turn for 3UU).

Sure thing is, 5UU seems to be the right cost. 4UU would be probably a bargain against Time Warp, while 6UU i think would be overcosted, at least considering the odds of have one in hand and use it to get a single extra turn.

[Luthervamplord]

I feel it needs to go something like this:

Question of When 3UUU
Sorcery
Whenever you cast this spell, you may reveal any number of cards from your hand with the same name. You may cast these revealed cards without paying their mana cost by exile them.
Take an extra turn after this one.


By doing it this way, it becomes a more balanced means and although I'm sure theirs a small error with the wording, it's more in-line with what you would expect for this kind of card.

[Streetz]

@Lokenta Mirana -- Why do I havwe to say 'from the battlefield' in the first ability under the keywords? It takes up too much space on the card and doesn't apply anyway if its coming from your library, hand or exiled zone. It won't have any counters on it anyway.

Also, why does it have to say, "on target creature named ~"? Why can't it just say target ~?"

Thank you for your input.

[ALEX Ryugami]

I figured it would be like:

EDIT: Oops, forgot about M10 rulings: "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have an even amount of cards in your hand, you may cast CARDNAME without paying its mana cost. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the end step."

I like your word, uber_panda. :)

[Lokenta Mirana]

Everyone seems to enjoy 'this spell' far too much. I could be wrong, but I've only every seen it on nameless tokens.

Streetz, I added 'from the battlefield' to prevent exile oddities. Even so, most cards that don't pay attention to where the creature is coming from have 'from anywhere.' Also, the the difference between 'a creature named ~' and 'a ~' is that the second one is used for a creature type (in this case, any Horror) while the first one is used for a creature name.

Le_Mirage, I think the card is amazing. In any case, onto the wording!


As you cast Question of When, you may reveal any number of cards from your hand with the same name as it. If you do, you may cast those cards without paying their mana cost.
Take an extra turn after this one.
[Exile Question of When.]

When, whenever, etc usually imply consecutive events (meaning the copies would be dealt with as 'after this spell is finished'). As changes it to 'during the time in which your casting this spell.' If you want it to be dealt with afterward, you'll need to add 'until the end of turn' to it.

Wording à la Dampen Thought (or any other card with Spice onto Arcane) and Cylian Sunsinger.

Lokenta Mirana

[uber_panda]

I just kept on putting this off again and again, and it's almost a week till the end of the contest and I still haven't tweaked my entry.
Finally here it is:
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt92/uber_panda/ThatWhichIsNight.jpg

Again tips and hints are always welcomed.
The shadow included is a lot nicer since even if he's out in play, he can only dish out damage to an opponent and creatures with shadow (and in the end he will kill you).

Things I'm thinking about changing:
-Downing the power/toughness to 10/10.
-Having so it says "If there are ten or more cards in your graveyard, you may cast That Which Is Night without paying its converted mana cost. If it is cast this way, ~ has haste."

[Le_Mirage]

Le_Mirage, I think the card is amazing. In any case, onto the wording!

As you cast Question of When, you may reveal any number of cards from your hand with the same name as it. If you do, you may cast those cards without paying their mana cost.
Take an extra turn after this one.
[Exile Question of When.]

When, whenever, etc usually imply consecutive events (meaning the copies would be dealt with as 'after this spell is finished'). As changes it to 'during the time in which your casting this spell.' If you want it to be dealt with afterward, you'll need to add 'until the end of turn' to it.

Wording à la Dampen Thought (or any other card with Spice onto Arcane) and Cylian Sunsinger.

Lokenta Mirana


Thanks ^ ^!

Anyway, i'am not sure about the wording. I take the one i used from Mishra, Artificer Prodigy . Fact is, splice into arcane make you reveal the card you want to splice since it is not supposed to be "played" but to remain in your hand. If you play a card from your hand instead, you "reveal it" (and anyone can't see it you can legally play it) as well, so, i don't think there is really need to specify it in the card.

As for the "play them all" ability, i wanted the ability to be a triggered one, much like the storm cards, counterable with the like of stifle. Then, i wanted to have all the other cards be played at the same time, whe the ability resolves (and not later, as you may do with Mind's Desire), to enforce the flavor of "right time"...but since they are sorceries, probably you may not. So i think that i have to add "play tham as instants" to it.

Finally, i exclude the "exile it" on purpose, since i want it to be recursive playable. If you want to do it and spoil it, then you have to collect at least two of them back from the graveyard (a more difficult task than just one, i believe), otherwise, it would not be different than recursive play a single extra one turn card (or Time Stretch).

@uber_panda: adding haste that way would be nice...even if you are suppose to deal with the cards in the graveyard first, otherwise, i guess that you will die if you attack (Even if the opponent has less than 11 life? I guess not, but i'am not so sure about damage and ability priority).

The toughness and power i think are good. It can help to compare it to Devouring Strossus maybe.

[uber_panda]

Ok, again I tweaked it again to something like this:


That Which Is Night - 7BBBBB
Legendary Creature - Nightmare - 11/11
If there are ten or more cards in your graveyard, you may cast ~ without paying its converted mana cost.
Haste, shadow
At the beginning of your end step, you lose 2 life for each card in your graveyard.
“I am the wound and the dagger... Victim and executioner!”
—Charles Baudelaire, Fleurs du Mal

With the haste and the end step added, once you drop this guy it's pretty much do or die, but it's a win condition that I hadn't really planned on doing. I wanted it originally it to be, that if you don't win right now at this very instant, your dead. Very much like the flavor text, I wanted the player to be the victor and the victim, so it could be do and die.
So instead to set more correctly to the flavor I want to get at it would probably be something like this



That Which Is Night - 7BBBBB
Legendary Creature - Nightmare - 11/11
If there are ten or more cards in your graveyard, you may cast ~ without paying its converted mana cost.
Haste, shadow
At the end of the combat phase, if ~ dealt damage to a player this turn, you lose 2 life for each card in your graveyard.
“I am the wound and the dagger... Victim and executioner!”
—Charles Baudelaire, Fleurs du Mal

Thoughts?

[Lokenta Mirana]

Uber_panda, know that you can't pay a converted mana cost. A converted mana cost is simply a number (in this case, 12). Your first sentence should read "If there are ten or more cards in your graveyard, you may cast ~ without paying its mana cost."

If you want that do and die situation, your original wording (with the new M10 rulings, at least) might work best. With them, you and your opponent will die at the same time (which to me appears to be what you're going for).

Lokenta Mirana

[Stuffy Doll]

i ignored the discussion thread for the deck building contest and ended up regretting it, so i want to take advantage of it in this one.....
http://i28.tinypic.com/qnqqmu.jpghttp://i27.tinypic.com/2prifww.jpg
comments? questions? suggestions?

[uber_panda]

@ Krakn Slayr: I like your use of Chernabog, but I don't think you'd be able to use that picture due to the fact that it is copyrighted by Disney, best to find fan art work by googling or through Deviant Art.
Some wording problems here and there, but keep in mind that rarity also goes into the score and the cleaner you make your card look the better your score will be. Try adding a personalized set symbol.
Why isn't Chernabog a demon either? I don't suppose he needs flying, even those wings are present in the artwork.

The wording for Chernabog should be something like:


Defender
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you control five lands, then sacrifice a mountain.
When ~ enters the battlefield it deals 5 damage to target creature or player.
T: ~ deals 5 damage to target creature or player.
Suspend 5 - 0


Wording is still a bit iffy. You should tweak the the power and toughness because defenders usually have a much higher toughness than power. Their blockers, it's what they're built for. Although in black, the vice versa is often true. It's all up to you, just keep it in balance and flavor.

And also I think you are only allowed one entry for this contest, I would probably go with Chernabog more than Stop Watch. And if I understand Stop Watch correctly, it's rather confusing: you can get a free spell if you skip your next turn. If you do that, you get an extra turn right after this one. Sure, you have no lands (if you sacrificed them all instead), but it doesn't matter if you get all your spells for free. It's free spells and infinite turns, and that's all with one card. Broken.

PS
Remember these are just suggestions. A creation is you own when you make it your own, so add a bit of you into every project.

[Stuffy Doll]

@ Krakn Slayr: I like your use of Chernabog, but I don't think you'd be able to use that picture due to the fact that it is copyrighted by Disney, best to find fan art work by googling or through Deviant Art.
Some wording problems here and there, but keep in mind that rarity also goes into the score and the cleaner you make your card look the better your score will be. Try adding a personalized set symbol.
Why isn't Chernabog a demon either? I don't suppose he needs flying, even those wings are present in the artwork.

The wording for Chernabog should be something like:


Wording is still a bit iffy. You should tweak the the power and toughness because defenders usually have a much higher toughness than power. Their blockers, it's what they're built for. Although in black, the vice versa is often true. It's all up to you, just keep it in balance and flavor.

And also I think you are only allowed one entry for this contest, I would probably go with Chernabog more than Stop Watch. And if I understand Stop Watch correctly, it's rather confusing: you can get a free spell if you skip your next turn. If you do that, you get an extra turn right after this one. Sure, you have no lands (if you sacrificed them all instead), but it doesn't matter if you get all your spells for free. It's free spells and infinite turns, and that's all with one card. Broken.

PS
Remember these are just suggestions. A creation is you own when you make it your own, so add a bit of you into every project.

thanks for the wording corrections, and the stop watch is a little broken (just a little ;D) i originally misread my own card, its supposed to break the chain after one extra turn but it doesnt (needs to be fixed)....and the art is copyrighted to disney and i did give them credit (at the bottom of the card in the artists text), as for chernabog, he does have wings, but being stuck in the volcano, he does not fly. and if the power/toughness do need to be fixed, i think i wouldve made him stronger, the only reason he has defender is because, again, hes stuck in the volcano and to the best of my knowledge he doesnt move. suggestions taken, im going to fix them now....and i dont know how many entries were allowed, theres no rule for it and i did see people with more than one.

EDIT:
http://i31.tinypic.com/24ednjn.jpghttp://i32.tinypic.com/nlzaqp.jpg

[ALEX Ryugami]

@Krakn Slayr: I think Chernabog's wording should be like this:


Defender
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you control five lands and sacrifice a Mountain. If you do, it deals 5 damage to target creature or player.
:tap:: ~ deals 5 damage to target creature or player.
Suspend 5-:0mana:

or if you want to have the damage effect for free, the Enters the Battlefield (EtB) ability is like this:


When ~ enters the battlefield, it deals 5 damage to target creature or player. Sacrifice it unless you control five lands and sacrifice a Mountain.

What I want to ask now is the Mountain counted on the five lands???

[Stuffy Doll]

@Krakn Slayr: I think Chernabog's wording should be like this:

or if you want to have the damage effect for free, the Enters the Battlefield (EtB) ability is like this:

What I want to ask now is the Mountain counted on the five lands???

well looking at the wording, it checks for lands first then u need to sac the mountain, yes its counted.

the effect should happen as soon as he hits the field, regardless of him staying on the field or if his conditions arent met and hes sacrificed

[JakeKessler]

Here's what you want to say:

When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you control five or more lands. Then sacrifice it unless you sacrifice a Mountain.
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, it deals 5 damage to target creature or player.

[kingez36@hotmail.co.uk]

ok so i posted a card very very similar before, i dont know if im aloud to do this but no where does it say i cant. specially as this was entered before cards where graded. lets hear the heads up.

[Cipinten]

Well as far as I know it goes 2 the last page uve viewed or something unless u press last page but maybe one of the other mods can help u a little bit more. Im not completely sure about this

YES Were bringing back one of our funnest runs next month Dates and details are still being worked out but It should be on Saturday July 18th. Keep an eye on this thread for more details and please feel free to sign up. This is going to be a fun one

Posts Merged.

Please do not double post in the future. Before you post anymore, I strongly suggest that you read the rules of the forum. Since these were literally your first two posts, I'm going to be nice and simply give you this warning. The next time it happens, it will most likely result in an infraction.

~TH~

[JakeKessler]

I'm pulling a Cashew and changing my submission at the last minute.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/MissingMinutes.png

[Plaguefather]

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5276/purgingblaze.jpg

Alrighty, i killed two bird wit one stone, I Updated my entry, changing it. and found out if you don't register wit Imageshack, they'll delete ur pics.

[JakeKessler]

@ Plaguefather: The first ability needs to be cleaned up some. Is it counting how many creatures have been sent to a graveyard all game? How many creatures are in the graveyard? How many have been sent this turn? I'm guessing it's that last one, but you need to specify.

As for the card as a whole... I don't really see how it fits together. I don't see how or why a purging fire causes you to gain life, and I don't see why it would care how many things already died before the fire started. Color-wise, I suppose this could fit in either red-white or black-white, but it doesn't need to be both. It's also worth noting that thanks to the first ability, I could cast it in any deck as long as I had a way to kill creatures. In multiplayer, I wouldn't even need that--I could cast it in any deck after my opponents killed each others creatures.

So on the whole this seems to be a rather scattered card.

[Le_Mirage]

@Plaguefather: ...it's pretty underpowered, too. At least if it's suppose to be a freebie only if 4 or more opponent's creatures went to the graveyard in the same turn. The opponent would be easily able to play around it.

For it's cost, then, it can placidly be a 6 damage/6 life gain hit.

[Cashew]

Decided on my entry, totally went full on old-school Sarpadian. Vasher won me a contest before, decided to expand his story and depict him at another time.

[death by aggro]

Back from camp (been two weeks), and I've decided to go a new route. As always, comments and critiques are welcome and encouraged.

Also, I haven't had time to view all the cards in detail, but the big contenders that stand out to me seem to be Vasher, Missing Minutes, and Orhoricon. Nice work gentlemen, hope to see you at the winner's circle:).

[Plaguefather]

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4175/fusionflame.jpg

Heres a new version, critique? its kinda vanilla, but eh....

[Kamahl's Disciple]

@ DBA: - Its a shame dude, I really liked Guardian of Havenwood a lot better then Brothers in Arms, it was a ton more flavorful and was very unique ability wise. It was in my top three alongside Tekk's entry and Jake's entry, I guess that spot now belongs to Umexx's entry.

[death by aggro]

@ DBA: - Its a shame dude, I really liked Guardian of Havenwood a lot better then Brothers in Arms, it was a ton more flavorful and was very unique ability wise. It was in my top three alongside Tekk's entry and Jake's entry, I guess that spot now belongs to Umexx's entry.

Is that so? Perhaps I'll put it back up if others feel similarly.

[Cashew]

I liked it better. I'm a sucker for Sarpadia obviously though =)

[JakeKessler]

@ Plaguefather: Doing it gold-hybrid like this is a step in the right direction. I think you've got the colors a little mixed up--I'd make White the definite color and Red and Black the hybrid choices, for a few reasons. For one, while RW and BW both historically get life drain like this, RB really doesn't, so it would make sense to force you to spend White either way. For another, it's more aesthetically balanced to do a wedge rather than some other odd triangle.

The free cost still seems wrong for the combination, though. I can get this free in mono-blue if my opponent has a graveyard strategy or if I cast Fade Away (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=6061)? I'd think about something else.

@ DBA: I really like Brothers in Arms. The size/amount of text bothers me some, but the concept it really cool. See if you can clean up the card a little and get rid of some text somehow, but otherwise I say you've got something good.

[ThunderHog]

3 days remaining!!!

[Cashew]

Shame they probably won't have Plane functionality announced by next month or we could make custom planes =)

[JakeKessler]

Like this one?

http://site.nitroplanes.com/christen1.jpg

[Le_Mirage]

Reposted the final version of my card, with what i believe to be the perfect wording.That way, it should be possibile to play one and then, if the triggered ability resolves, to play the others in hand (if any) for free in the same stack.

That should add quite some mind burden to be opponent, if he has some way to stifle the ability :D.

@ Plaguefather: Yes, i think it should be B/R and W. The free cost condition i think is fair. Red, black and white are all capable to send a lot of creatures in the graveyard in one stroke. The hard point it to find a situation in which the opponent has four creatures, you have survived, and you kill them all and play the card. It is difficult but not that much (green decks and weenie should do). It would probably fail more because the opponent know of it in advance and can play around it (or he just have a one/few/no creature deck), that in every other case.

Apart from that, it's pretty interesting and pretty strong, i think. If the right condition arise, one can play more than one in chain. And yes, you can play it in every decks that you think may sweep the board of creatures, even if you don't play R B or W. It can seems broken, but again it's not that easy so one should have guts to same degree to try it :D.

[death by aggro]

@ DBA: I really like Brothers in Arms. The size/amount of text bothers me some, but the concept it really cool. See if you can clean up the card a little and get rid of some text somehow, but otherwise I say you've got something good.

My thoughts exactly, and I've decided that I could probably save this idea and tweak it for other uses (such as some later month). However I'm really only getting one shot to use the fungus, so I'll let him shine for now.

[Coldstone]

Mine's up. Comments wanted/appreciated.

[death by aggro]

Wait, Coldstone not doing a burn card? Somebody call Ripley'sXD!

Alright, on a more serious note, I like the card, but it probably doesn't need to be a rare (look at Ethersworn Shieldmage). In all likelihood it should be an uncommon.

[Coldstone]

Wait, Coldstone not doing a burn card? Somebody call Ripley'sXD!

Alright, on a more serious note, I like the card, but it probably doesn't need to be a rare (look at Ethersworn Shieldmage). In all likelihood it should be an uncommon.

:p If I ALWAYS did burn cards, I'd defeat the purpose of calling meself Coldstone!

A quick modification can change the rarity.

[Plaguefather]

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1944/fusionflame2.jpg

Alright, new version, forcing white a little more. Upped the power level and rarity. Upped its playability as well. so one can bounce off of the other.

[JakeKessler]

The second mode doesn't feel very white.

[Le_Mirage]

Yeah. And at this point it is a little too versatile. The chance to spray 6 damage around as an instant is, added to the rest, probably a little to much of a bargain.

[Drathro]

Thought I'd drop by and leave my two cents. I apologize if I'm repeating what was said before, but I'm far too lazy to read through 15 pages of comments just to make sure I'm being original.

YWN: The art on your card is freakin sweet! VegasMike should probably send some samples to WotC...

kingez36: Targeting during payment is weird. Also, nothing says the lands must be untapped - you should add that. Interestingly, you don't need Blue mana to play this yourself the way it is written, which might be what you intended. How about "You may tap 4 untapped lands controlled by a single player rather ..."?

[Plaguefather]

hmm, should i add another clause saying "or Target player loses 6 life, you gain 6 life."??? Maybe lose the six damage to one thing and have the Spray plus Life drain? idk, what would a more white effect be?

[death by aggro]

:p If I ALWAYS did burn cards, I'd defeat the purpose of calling meself Coldstone!

I thought it was one of those intended ironies. You know, kinda like if I made counter spells and wrath effects every time:p.

Hmmm, I wonder if Tekkactus will ever make a plant:paranoid:?

[JakeKessler]

Plaguefather: Just leave the first mode, axe the second one entirely. The card is cluttered and complicated as it is, and getting rid of the weird second mode will help that. A 12-life swing for six mana is pretty good, you don't need to add more choices.

I kind of want to try this... I just like Missing Minutes (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/MissingMinutes.png) better:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v390/tomorrowjake/GlacialTrail.png

[Plaguefather]

What if i make it to where you can divide damage, but not the first ability, reads like this
"Fusion Flame deals 6 damage divided as you choose among any target non-white creatures and/or target players, you gain 6 life."
eh? comments suggestions?

[JakeKessler]

Plaguefather: I suppose that wouldn't be so much of a stretch. It de-clutters the card a little, and it keeps the symmetry of 6 damage to 6 life.

I also still think the alternate cost isn't right for these colors. Black is the only color that cares about creatures going to a graveyard, and even if this were monoblack that would feel weird and hard to satisfy.

Why not something with a certain number of creatures attacking you? Something along the lines of:

If three or more creatures are attacking you, you may cast CARDNAME without paying its mana cost.

Something else to think about: Being able to divide the damage pushes this over the top into being a little too powerful for its cost, and raising the cost any more might make the card unplayable. Six mana is already pushing that. To balance the power out, I'd eliminate the option of hitting players. White doesn't get that much, even if both of the other colors do... Whereas dividing the damage (usually a red ability) fits easy enough in white if you squint if you limit it to only targeting creatures. Especially if it's likely you're using it on attacking creatures, given the alternate cast condition I suggested.

Finally, I'd consider changing the name. Fusion Flame just doesn't sound very good... I'm not even sure what the word "Fusion" is supposed to mean in this context, other than that you're using more than one color of mana. It's also worth noting that flames are usually a red thing, and you can cast this without red mana.

So all in all, I think a different name might be helpful... Maybe an abstract-sounding phrase like "Void Wave" or similar, although that's kind of what you were already doing... or maybe a sinister-sounding big word like "Desolate" or "Excoriate". "Scathe" is another nice one, short and final-sounding. If I were making this card, "Scathe" is the title I'd probably use.

[Le_Mirage]

@Plaguefather: point is, this card is probalby more multicolored than an hybrid, cause, more than a card that blur between abilities common to three colors, we have an alternate cost regarding creatures sent in the graveyard (black) a burn effect (red) and a life gain effect (white) added togheter.

To reflect this, i would leave as it is (without the ability to spray the damage) and change the card cost to 3RBW...therefore making a little more overcosted, but more reasonable. We are still talking, after all, of an instant Death Grasp plus a point of damage, that you can maybe cast for free after the activation of a Nevinyrral's Disk or a Oblivion Stone, or even a Pyroclasm or the like.

The alternate cost i think it's fine. Making it easier would actually mean to have the mana cost be the real alternate cost.

[JakeKessler]

I disagree, Le_Mirage. I think the :manabr::w: cost is completely appropriate for an effect that deals damage and gains life.
You have to spend either :r::w: or :w::b: to cast it, either (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=87908) of which (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=29415) regularly get this kind of effect.

It is exactly like Slave of Bolas (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=188971) in the Alara Reborn set, in which you get creature kill combined with a one-turn theft for a :manaur::b: cost.
You have to spend either :u: or :r: as well as :b: to cast Slave of Bolas, each (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129767) of which (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=184663) make sense (http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=131002) for the effect.

The only thing that's off about the mechanics of Plaguefather's card in terms of color is the alternate cast, which fits loosely with black (although not really with this specific black effect) and not at all with the other two colors. Again, I suggest replacing the creatures put into graveyards this turn with something else... creatures attacking you, for example, or damage dealt to you this turn.

I also maintain my above suggestions re: the name and not targeting players.

[Le_Mirage]

Yes, the main effect is RW or BW, but if you value the alternate cost as an ability itself, that's quite black then.

Make the alternate cost based on attacking creatures will probably make this card one of those (hateful :D) cards that you are doomed to have abused in your face (for free, too) way too often (like Wing Shards). More useful and easy to use, but perhaps less interesting and less versatile (expecially if players are not targetable, that which make it useless in no creature deck, nor viable to be a possible finisher).

[JakeKessler]

Plaguefather, something else to keep in mind about the alternate cast requiring a certain number of creatures going to graveyards... most of the time a player could cast this for free, there won't be any reason to, since all of the creatures you would be shooting at just died. You're going to have a majority of situations where the alternate cast doesn't really matter.

I really think you should leave the cost as is since it fits the card's actual effect, and find a better condition for casting it free.

[Le_Mirage]

That's just why the choice between a single burn and 6 damage sprayed is too strong. If you are in the urge for a creature sweeper, you may use it to spray damage. If you have a global sweeper ready (changes are high, since your are possibly playing B, R and W) than you may add the Fusion to the mix to a 6 hit / 6 life gain for free, if you have just swept four or more creature away (three would be easier: imagine two creatures and, say, a Bird or a Elf or the like).
If you can 't play it for free, you have a decent shot/sweeper in your hand (playable as an instant) for the next turns anyway.

[Tekkactus]

Finished card is up. Not my best art, since its a bit rushed, but it does include Hulk Hogan for some reason. That's worth some bonus points, right?