XCB Round XII

[Maleficent]

XCB Common Rules
Your deck is composed of X cards which all start in your hand.
Your library contains 0 cards.
Random effects always go in their owner's opponent's favor.
You can see your opponent's hand, so you make the best possible play.
You don't lose as a result of not being able to draw a card.
You play each opponent twice; once going first and once going second.

For each win, you score 3 points.
For each draw, you score 1 point.
For each loss, you score 0 points.

You may not submit a deck that can win before the opponent's first main phase.
You may not submit a deck that can force an opponent to lose two or more cards from his or her hand in a single turn.

Besides that the game works the same as a normal game of magic.
You may only play one land per turn unless a card specifically alters that.
You must have the mana to be able to play cards unless otherwise able to do so.
You and your opponent each begin with 20 life.

Rules for this XCB Round Specifically:
1) Deck size is determined by whichever player has the first turn each game. If Player Noonya uses a 2CB deck and Player Bidness uses a 3CB, the first round will be played as if it was 2CB and the second round will be played as 3CB. This gives advantages and disadvantages to all XCB sizes.

2) You may only play up to 5CB. That means all deck sizes from 2-5 are legal.

3) Send me your lists in order of how you want them played. Whenever you are limited your cards will be chosen in the exact order so if you send me:
1 - Black Lotus
2 - Show and Tell
3 - Form of the Dragon
4 - Mishra's Factory

If you face a player with a 3CB deck one game you won't be able to use the 4th card - Mishra's Factory

4) This is a Vanishing XCB. All winning and excessively popular decks will get hit with a 5-Round ban. After the end they become legal again. This will ensure a slightly fresh format each week.

*****

Banned List
All Ante cards
All Promo cards not available on Gatherer/Autocard
All Unglued and Unhinged cards (excluding basic land)

Mishra's Workshop
Sphere of Resistance
Epochrasite
Black Lotus
Seal of Cleansing

Swamp
Sarcomancy
Tel-Jilad Stylus
Mox Sapphire
Mana Crypt
Show and Tell
Darksteel Colossus
Propaganda

Mox Jet
Vendetta
The Rack
Strip Mine
Bitterblossom

Ghost Quarter
City of Traitors
Illusionary Mask
Phyrexian Dreadnaught
Feldon's Cane
Thran Foundry

Bayou
Rogue Elephant
Blackmail

*****

The following are back for some fun:

Eldamari's Vineyard
Treetop Village
Basking Rootwalla
Moonring Island
Foil

Sign-Up: You have until November 9th to send in your deck.

Big Hint: Play a deck that can compete at all XCB's levels if you want the best score. Some decks will fail miserably if it requires all the cards in the deck to work.

Participants
1) Maleficent - FWMMM
2) guest1234 - Fun with Rabbits
3) hells33kerd - Overkill!
4) boiwithteeth - Bizzare...
5) Cashew - Darn Vineyard!
6) NMR - Want a Banana?
7) FP - Never gonna happen
8) :(
9) :(
10) :(

[Cashew]

I'm in, wonder if I should run the score halver again =)

[Maleficent]

You almost won with it last time. XD But will people expect it now? :paranoid:

Meh, posted this accidentally before I got a title and I can't edit or delete it. :(

[Cashew]

What do you want the title to be?

[guest1234]

Go go green deck!

[Niv-Mizzet_Rulez!]

I'm in. This time i won't forget to submit a deck

[hells33kerd]

i'm in, just sent mine

[Maleficent]

4 days to send in lists! Only have 5 so far.

[Niv-Mizzet_Rulez!]

Deck sent, just a few moments ago. I'm a bit rusty at building XCB decks, so i hope i do okay. :o

[Cashew]

Last day for entries. Unless postponed whatever! Get it in.

[Maleficent]

Well, that's it. 7 players in all. :( Only have a few games left to do, so results will be up shortly. :)

[Maleficent]

The Decks
1. Maleficent
Wasteland
Mishra's Factory
Mishra's Factory
Force of Will
Misdirection

2. guest1234
Forest
Llanowar Mentor
Vigor
Llanowar Mentor
Vigor

3. hells33kerd
Treetop Village
Eladamri's Vineyard
Eladamri's Vineyard
Nourishing Shoal
Autochthon Wurm

4. boiwithteeth
Island
Foil
Basking Rootwalla
Basking Rootwalla
Bazaar of Baghdad

5. Cashew
Treetop Village
Eladamri's Vineyard
Wasteland
Force of Will
Force of Will

6. Niv-Mizzet Rulez!
Taiga
Kird Ape
Kird Ape
Wasteland

7. final_press
Mox Diamond
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Wasteland
Disenchant

The Scores
1. Maleficent: X+0+6+6+6+2+4 | 24
2. guest1234: 6+X+6+6+6+6+6 | 36
3. hells33kerd: 0+0+X+0+0+0+0 | 0
4. boiwithteeth: 0+0+6+X+6+0+2 | 14
5. Cashew: 0+0+6+0+X+2+1 | 9
6. NMR: 2+0+6+6+2+X+0 | 16
7. FP: 1+0+6+2+4+6+X | 19

The Results
1. guest1234: 6+X+6+6+6+6+6 | 36
2. Maleficent: X+0+6+6+6+2+4 | 24
3. FP: 1+0+6+2+4+6+X | 19
4. NMR: 2+0+6+6+2+X+0 | 16
5. boiwithteeth: 0+0+6+X+6+0+2 | 14
6. Cashew: 0+0+6+0+X+2+1 | 9
7. hells33kerd: 0+0+X+0+0+0+0 | 0

0X|01-02-03-04-05-06-07 | Total
---------------------------------------
01|0X-00-06-06-06-02-04 | 24
02|06-0X-06-06-06-06-06 | 36
03|00-00-0X-00-00-00-00 | 0
04|00-00-06-0X-06-00-02 | 14
05|00-00-06-00-0X-02-01 | 9
06|02-00-06-06-02-0X-00 | 16
07|01-00-06-02-04-06-0X | 19

Wow. Like, holy crap.

guest1234 is the winner! FLAWLESS VICTORY.

So, ah, bonus points for that... like 6, that's the number of games played. XD Has that ever happened before (here)?

Anyhoo, next round I'm thinking will be freestyle (no bannings, less rules... maybe less than infinite?) but still with a limit. M'kay? :)

[final_press]

Wowzer!! Good work guest1234!
And a mini-w00t for me... highest placing yet, and a semi-accurate assault on the meta for the round.

Next round should definately be something crazy. Wasn't there talk of a vanguard round? Something like that would be amazing! You're right to steer away from a return to infinite-card round (at least not so soon after the last one) but clearly we need to jazz things up to get some more interest in the game.

How about increasing the minimum and maximum hand-size for one round, like 4 minimum - 7 maximum? Or forcing people to use a (non-hybrid) multi-colour deck? Pauper would be quite a challenge... would that even be possible?. (may require an increased card limit at least).

[guest1234]

36/36? :eek:

So it looks like Elfball is the leading deck in both Extended and XCB :D

Well, no strip mine helps. I was worried about a small deck with discard foiling me. Guess that didn't show up.

P.S. Where do the 6 points go?

[Niv-Mizzet_Rulez!]

Man.....i didn't see that elf deck coming(No one did, hence how it won.) I guess middle place is okay(4th out of 7 is middle place). I was expecting to bomb completely(except against vineyard decks(I was prepared for them)).

[Maleficent]

Actually Vanguard sounds good for the next one, something different. You're right FP. ^^ And each has its own hand size adjustment, so that'll be pretty interesting. :D I'm just not sure which ones should be used... the really old ones, the newer ones, probably have to ban Momir and some others.... :P


P.S. Where do the 6 points go?

This is supposed to be part of the MDV Super Series thing. I'm not sure what's going on with that, but yeah, points and stuff. :P

What makes me sad is that guest had a different deck before this one that would have done pretty poorly I think (meaning I'd have won again :P). Tch. XD That some skills there. The interesting thing is that with all these unique decks winning there are many many past winners viable for use at the same time. :eek:


I was worried about a small deck with discard foiling me. Guess that didn't show up.

We've rarely been getting small decks. They do well pretty consistantly but I don't think they ever win 1st. So I guess if you want easy points, go small. :P

[Cashew]

My deck sucked le balls. Knew I shoulda went with Ensaring Bridge - No Lands - Helix - Vineyard.

[final_press]

Why don't we just say series 1-4 only? As you quite rightly say, if we use the MTGO ones we'd have to ban individual cards, which always makes things seem a little less fun. The old-school ones should offer up enough craziness to give it a sufficient trial run... then we can worry about judging the potential brokeness of particular cards.

[Maleficent]

I think some of the older ones might be too powerful, not sure. What are these series?

[final_press]

http://magicdeckvortex.com/visual_spoilers_vanguard_avatars.htm

Mishra or Greven certainly seem a little intimidating. But nobody strikes me as being particularly broken. I think I forsee many a Bitterblossom deck trying to dominate combat.

Gerrard, Multani, Rofellos and Starke are all pretty damn useless, however.

[Maleficent]

Thanks. :D Well I suppose someone could use Momir if they wanted... just need a random generator thing and that would take a long time. However he does kind of suck in this format, so maybe I won't have to worry about him. (Watch someone use it just to make my life hellish. :P)

I think I already know which Vanguard I'd use. :D Oky, will have to look through those and see if any are excessively ridiculous (probably not?). 'Till then, get those ideas flowin'. The rules will be the same + Vanguard with the normal, basic bannings (Un cards, special promos, ante cards all banned, no others). Hand size affects your min/max cards by the difference (so a starting hand size of 8 would mean you get one extra, thus a possible max of 6 though you can use as low as 2). Normal rules still apply.

[Cashew]

You'll need to clarify starting hand sizes. I'm still a little confused.

[Maleficent]

Oky, the base for all hand sizes is 5 (which is the max normally). You take the difference on the Vanguard and apply it to that, so if on the Vanguard you have a starting hand size of 9, that's a difference of +2 (some of the Vanguards have the hand size and some just have the +/-), so apply the +2 to the base 5 and you can use up to 7 cards, though you can use as few as 2 if you like.

[final_press]

It'd be so much easier if all the MTGO guys hand the +/- system of the older cards. I get what you're saying though. Hand size 6 is essentially "Max hand size is -1"... so your maximum XCB hand-size is then 4, instead of 5.

[Maleficent]

Exactamundo.

[Cashew]

It'd be so much easier if all the MTGO guys hand the +/- system of the older cards

We do. I have no idea where the Vanguard cards in the Visual Spoiler came from. They don't look like the old ones or the new ones.

[guest1234]

Momir sucks at XCB. Remember the cardinal rule: Random effects go against the player.

Please decide what Avatars we are to choose from. I'm not about to read all of them and then find out half are banned.

[thanatos]

Would Momir and Jhoria be outright banned due to randomness of results? If not, I could make a spreadsheet to help with results.

[Mogg]

Wouldn't seem to make sense to ban them; wouldn't seem to make sense to play them either. You get whichever effect is most beneficial to your opponent. I'd be surprised if a comptetetive strategy arises on the basis of paying X and a card to get the worst possible creature at any cost.

I believe only one ban is necessary: Ink-Eyes. The drawback of -1 hand is irrelevant on the play. The matchup becomes four good cards against three cards, missing something crucial. I think the effect approximates a guaranteed on-the-play win more closely than any effect should, especially as it's still a great ability on the draw. The main balancing factor of discard is generally its inneffectiveness on the draw. Ink-Eyes presents Thoughtseize at no card expenditure before the opponent has a chance to respond. To top it all off, it's also a secondary win condition. Ink-Eyes stifles creativity because it is versatile and very competetive.

[Maleficent]

Would Momir and Jhoria be outright banned due to randomness of results?

Well... the random factor going against you wouldn't really apply since the number of possible results is so huge and there isn't a good way to determine what's worst for the player. Even so both of them suck in this format imo. Mogg said it well. There's really no point in wanting to use them in the first place other than to make my life harder. :P

But the random rule does affect Frenetic Efreet - you'll never get an extra turn - and also Flametongue Kavu & the like, which will always deal 0 damage.


I believe only one ban is necessary: Ink-Eyes. The drawback of -1 hand is irrelevant on the play. The matchup becomes four good cards against three cards, missing something crucial. I think the effect approximates a guaranteed on-the-play win more closely than any effect should, especially as it's still a great ability on the draw. The main balancing factor of discard is generally its inneffectiveness on the draw. Ink-Eyes presents Thoughtseize at no card expenditure before the opponent has a chance to respond. To top it all off, it's also a secondary win condition. Ink-Eyes stifles creativity because it is versatile and very competetive.

I don't think it needs to be banned though.Its first ability is basically giving both players -1 to their hands (nonland), + the recur ability that only works on opponents' graveyards - and the opponent may not have any creatures in their deck at all. The biggest problem I see is combining it with Thoughtseize or something... that almost goes against the XCB rules (which may have to be changed for this). :/ There's also Phage and Ashnod, who nullify pretty much any combat-based strategy, which is almost all XCB decks. And Lyzolda... hellbent is uber-easy to get in XCB.

There are quite a few really good and really bad vanguards, so I think metagaming is the answer to this. You know Ink-Eyes is there and that people will probably use it - so what do you do? In that way it spurs creativity, making you think up new ways to win. You could also say that Jitte stifled creativity, but that was never banned either since there were plenty of answers.

[thanatos]

If some (like me) would choose one of those two, I would runn all of those matches for you, if you would like.

[Mogg]

While a nice offer, everyone should really be calculating all the matches anyway, to minimize individual errors. I'm a fan of the system used in another variation of this, where everyone submits (by pm) all their matches to the moderator, and the moderator also calculates all the matches. This gives three submissions for any match and reduces that chance that errors will go unnoticed. And it's not a lot of work to calculate just your own matches.

Also, responding to Maleficent, Efreet could gain you a turn if that's to your opponent's benefit. For example, if you have an upkeep trigger that will kill them on their turn and they have a trigger that will kill you on yours. I mention this only because, especially if more people start scoring matchups, its a good idea to have a precise understanding of all the options in each game. Not looking beyond the most common option is one of the the easiest ways to miscalculate a game.

[Maleficent]

True, true. Good points Mogg.

Also, with these more recent rounds I've been encouraging people to look over the scores before actually announcing a winner (unless it was really clear). I kinda doubt everyone would play out their own games though. :P


If some (like me) would choose one of those two, I would runn all of those matches for you, if you would like.

That'd be nice... but how would I know the random choices aren't biased? And for that matter, how would you know my random choices aren't biased.... Ok, they're banned. XD

Next round should be up shortly; my deck's near completion. ^^ I'll give a little more time for this one... and note that Momir and Jhoira will be banned. Also, there will be this additional rule:

You may not submit a deck that can force an opponent to lose two or more cards from his or her hand before his or her first turn.

It's kind of a combination of the existing two, and really, with Ink-Eyes and going first you're pretty much making them discard 2 in one turn, it's just technical wording stuff. So none of that. :P