What's happening here? Why the decline in different posters?

[Syphon]

I am seeing the forum these days and notice that there's less and less different people posting. What gives? I am not really inclined to post myself. Maybe a lull in the season? Or, who knows, the calm before the storm? Someone tell me and reassure me :X

[§cIoN]

•** Notice: this is a long post...before passing any judgement or commenting on anything I have stated here, please read the whole post....You May find an interesting idea or two**•
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
○***Streetz, You definitely should read my 5th point, think about it for a while and please let me know what you think of the idea, If you like it, I will try and form a group of individuals to work on this...maybe even get the majority of the forum's members involved. I beg you to consider this, as I think it could be a very good thing for the forums.○***

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have also noticed a decline.
There are people who leave, and will never come back.
and then there are people like myself. I am and forever will be dedicated to MDV. I used to post A LOT, but recently even I have been effected by this "activity-disease" that seems to be plaguing the forums.
The activity problems are clearly not the result of one thing, but the results of a sum of things, each person has different reasons.

For me the reasons for less posts are:

1) There are many contests, but they are all judged by one person, which to me, seems very biased, which is why i don't participate in most of those contests. I believe to maintain more integrity for the contests, there needs to be a panel of judges.
Check spoiler for my views on the matter-
We appoint moderators/admins, why not appoint contest judges. (not all of them would have to be involved with each contest, but all least there would be people who are designated as judges for these contests....people who's capabilities as a judge are evident.)

2) We have clans, but only a few are really "present", if ya know what i mean.
I think we need more interaction between clans. (clan contests, maybe finally making an inter-clan tournament system?....I know we tried in the past. I think the main reason all previous attempts have failed is because we tried to get too complicated.
Check spoiler for my views on the matter-
Points discourage new people from joining a tournament, they see that they will start at a disadvantage and think, "why bother?".
Schedules are a different problem all together, but with enough people working together a system can be created that would make timezones almost obsolete.
the previous attempts i can remember, usually it was one clan that was doing all the decision making, which for an inter-clan project, is completely unfair.
I believe, that right now we might not have the same crowd we did one year ago, but we have a lot of commited people who, if working together could really make this work.
being fair to people involved in the tournament, also means being fair to everyone, i someone's schedule prevents them from playing their matches for one entire month, then it would be fair to them to give them an extension for those games to be completed, but at the same time, it's not fair to the other players, who also probably have time constraints but have worked around those constraints. obviously a fair amount of time must be given in order for each person to have their matches, but if that time is still not enough, that person should receive a loss.
another problem with the previous attempts of making a tournament thing for mdv, is that I've heard people call it "casual tournament" which causes problems, there is no such thing as a casual tournament. a budget tourny, ok...a un-sanctioned format tourny, ok... but the words casual, and tournament, are pretty much opposites. The closest you can get to a casual tournament, is using a limited format (like pauper, or a mish-mash of random sets.)...but I'm ranting now, on to point #3.

3) while this site/forums is very casual driven, there is an increasing amount of people joining who are into the tournament scene, or at least a "less casual casual scene"...I feel as if the site is catering to one type of player, but we have a vast diversity of different types of players. I think we need to look into forming some activities for the less casual players. (see spoiler in point #2)

4)I also believe that the writer's strike may have contributed somewhat to the decline in activity as well.

5) While contests, card creation, art, articles, and all is still present. I believe there needs to be something done to attract outside parties. Honestly even the little things may help.
Which also begs the questions, what is it that attracts most people to MDV, while I'm sure the casual theme of mdv attracts some people, I know that it wasn't that for me...
for me it was the atmosphere that the members create.
I hear that a lot of new members joined because they were looking through the deck/combo database. This is a good thing, but as stated earlier, we focus on more casual content than anything else, if we could focus on both casual and non-casual content, then we could attract people from both ends of the spectrum. I understand there's only so much Streetz can add by himself to the site, but that's where the members come in.
I think there are a lot of people who love this site as much as I do, and I think there's a lot of things we can do to help Streetz out. We all have our own skills. I think it's time we all put them to good use. Which brings me to my next example.
One example of something that seems small that could attract people: (check spoiler)

What if MDV had a "commercial"? We could work on a short video that would let people know about MDV and what it can offer them. Some words from the existing members, some of the veterans, and maybe a couple short words from Streetz himself. some enticing graphics, and a good catch phrase, maybe even giving MDV its very own logo.
once we have the video, we could put it up on MDV's myspace, youtube, break.com, and many other sites. There are already a lot of people that go to these video sites and look up MTG, we might even be able to try and contact some of the creators of these net-MTG-shows, and ask them if they would be willing to recommend us during an episode or two.
We have a lot of people on MDV, but there are many many other people who have no clue we even exist.
It would be a pretty big project, that may have small or large results. It would take the participation of a lot of people, but I think the end result would be worth it.

-----

Thank you.

[Syphon]

There you go. Do your advantage with this, everyone. Scion, good stuff.

[Tekkactus]

It's the slow season for rumors, too. That may play a part.

Plus, MDV doesn't advertise that I know of. All of our posters come from Google Image Searches or MTGS Radar.

[§cIoN]

It's the slow season for rumors, too. That may play a part.
very true.


Plus, MDV doesn't advertise that I know of. All of our posters come from Google Image Searches or MTGS Radar.
And that's why an advertisement could work.

[Grumpherys]

I found the site with combos in 06 then proceeded to look for more combos and then i saw a combo suggestion forum. I went in for th glory of having my name on the combo site I preferred. then as i was reading around more I then got into articles at one point considering to join the writers guild i realized A: school doesn't allow that much time and B: I couldn't write a lick(the reason i wanted to is I'm a huge mill fan looking for more and more decking ways) I also have a tendency to like standard play more than casual as the people i play with don't play casual.

STREETZ! do the content for standard legal combos please! and I assure you there will be more turn out.

also is there a way to advertise the site on MTG.com? think of the possibilities!

[Maleficent]

We appoint moderators/admins, why not appoint contest judges. (not all of them would have to be involved with each contest, but all least there would be people who are designated as judges for these contests....people who's capabilities as a judge are evident.)

Finding the judges could be difficult, as people generally would rather participate than judge imo. Also, Cashew creates most of the contests himself, so it's only right that he judge them. I could see if we had a few judges that rotate, and if Cashew shares all of the info about the contest with them secretly, it could work. I could probably do some of them. I'm only slightly biased towards myself. XD


I think we need more interaction between clans. (clan contests, maybe finally making an inter-clan tournament system?....I know we tried in the past. I think the main reason all previous attempts have failed is because we tried to get too complicated.

Ok, let's make one! Of course, we'll need consistant activity and input from all the clans - equally. Also, it need not be a contest. It could be any sort of project, hmm....


4)I also believe that the writer's strike may have contributed somewhat to the decline in activity as well.

That's likely, and irreversible imo.


What if MDV had a "commercial"?

:alright: Even we posters could put together something on MDV's behalf, eh?

[Ryuzaki]

It was done around the Official Writer's Strike, so if people left taking it "that" seriously, I don't know if I care for them leaving. Also, we really do need "other" non-Order clans to step up to the plate. That would be nice. :P

[Grumpherys]

Tekk and syphon(not even in a clan, no offense :P)... well thats not much compared to the waht is that 4 [Order] members that posted so far in here?

[BurnBait]

Tekk and syphon(not even in a clan, no offense )

I'm pretty sure Tekk's a member of the DeckMechs... Also, the order is very involved, but that's due to the nature of the clans. The DM's have a very limited membership angle, and you'll notice that a huge chunk of the actually beneficial posters in the deck critique sections are mechs, DESPITE their limited membership. Meanwhile, the wizards are comprised of many of the newer members and some of the admins, and the lorehold is much the same. Meanwhile, the order is... everyone else. I can't say I'm surprised as to the post counts (comparatively speaking) of the order, but I AM surprised that any order member would insinuate that the selflessness of the order is greater than that of any other clan. If that's not what you meant I recommend explaining what why you posted, and I'll just point out that a number of our posters aren't even aware this thread exists, due to its nigh unfindable nature amidst the rubble of the rest of the MDV general chat. I only clicked on it because it was last posted on by a person I'd never seen before.

Also, I'd be willing to judge contests, since my interest is more in creating them than in breaking them. I also offer my services to cashew, if he's ever in a crunch for time and wants some grunt work done. And I'll help out with basically any other project, too. I'm fairly community minded, or so my engorged ego believes...

[Maleficent]

Also, I'd be willing to judge contests, since my interest is more in creating them than in breaking them. I also offer my services to cashew, if he's ever in a crunch for time and wants some grunt work done. And I'll help out with basically any other project, too. I'm fairly community minded, or so my engorged ego believes...

Very good! Cashew admitted he's short on time, and right now he's the only one in charge of official contests I believe, in addition to any that others want to create (TH's House of Cards or XCB). Hm, should something be posted on the main site or elsewhere about this...?

[Tekkactus]

Tekk and syphon(not even in a clan, no offense :P)... well thats not much compared to the waht is that 4 [Order] members that posted so far in here?

Not only are you wrong, but I don't see how clans matter in this discussion.

[Grumpherys]

I only meant we need more participation sorry if i sounded stuck up i meant syphon is not in a clan i know tekk is... and about clan importance I meant to say we need more interaction thats all :) no worries I'm harmless

[Streetz]

Now an MDV Commercial -- that would be great. if anyone wants to put that together, please do.

In the meantime, if someone wants to summarize all of the good suggestions and PM me - I would appreciate it. I don't have time tonight to read through this thread. (I got up to POint 5 of Scion's post).

[Ryuzaki]

Well with my writing clearing up very soon. I have a video-camera and have been wanting to do some videos, Sk and I could try to do a few for you. Set them up on youtube or something? Sounds like a fun little project to work on. :D

[ThunderHog]

^ That oughta be good... That's something I wanna see.

[DazBoot]

I agree with ^ I would love to see that. However, it seems like straight video could be hard for many people to contribute. Any thoughts on how people without video access could help out?

[Streetz]

Do I smell a contest? :P We can have 2 or 3 people judge it. ;)

[DazBoot]

Do I smell a contest? :P We can have 2 or 3 people judge it. ;)

If it's a contest I don't think the winner should be the advertisement. The contest could be a good way of stirring up some ideas, but the final add should take into account all of the ideas that come up. Just my .02

[Grumpherys]

I was thinking like a plug in sigs for different forums like MTG gleemax... I would do it

[Cashew]

Scion let me answer or respond to a few of your concerns.


There are many contests, but they are all judged by one person, which to me, seems very biased, which is why i don't participate in most of those contests. I believe to maintain more integrity for the contests, there needs to be a panel of judges.
Check spoiler for my views on the matter

I understand what you are saying Scion, but I don't see any difference between contests that are judged by a single person or those that are judged by a panel. I notice some get major hype and some fail because of what they ask, but as far as judging this is something you don't see as a participant. In order to get 3 judges you need 3 heads working as one. This just doesn't work for the reasons you said - people disappear. So if you get into week 3 of a contest and your 3rd judge disappears the results never come, and week 4 doesn't come around. It's also hard to find judges because most want to play in a contest and not be the judge. More contests have died due to panels than anything else.

Now lets examine the current and recent contests.

1) Tribal Coffee's deck build - Streetz
2) MDV Idol - Tynion, Streetz, DBB
3) Class-Wars's deck build - Cashew
4) MDV Xmas Contest - Luthervamplord
5) Planeswalker Contest - Cashew, Streetz, Michael Zeora

In the forum contests that run off and on non-stop:
1) I run Darksteel Designer, but the major winner is also by popular vote.
2) Thunderhog runs the House of Cards (no judging just playing the decks)
3) Sensei K/Mogg seem to run and judge XCB although judging is based on performance
4) YWN is running the Make a Card which is all popular voted based.
5) Judges change each round with Fit the Flavor with currently YWN, Oblivon and myself (filling in for a judge who could not).
6) Card of the Month is voted on by the entrity of the Writer's Guild.

Notice how many of them aren't judged at all but simply run based on results. Others are judged by panels or large groups of people (whether it be the writer's or popular opinion). I also checked back to contests with panel judges major and small - you had no participation in the four I checked - which leads me to question what I'm smelling here.

But I digress. Again, contest participation is flaky. We just had a major deckbuilding contest - had 19 seperate entries (5 were rejected and the creators decided not to respond back or it would have been 24). Now Streetz has a semi-contest up to build a construct deck and so far 2 entries. There's little rhyme or reason.


We have clans, but only a few are really "present", if ya know what i mean. I think we need more interaction between clans. (clan contests, maybe finally making an inter-clan tournament system?....I know we tried in the past. I think the main reason all previous attempts have failed is because we tried to get too complicated.


Tynion and I are working on a system that will show just how active clans are and possibly create both an individual and clan based leaderboard for contest wins. It's still being talked about right now, but both of us are excited about aspects so hopefully we can get it together soonish. This might help the clan issue some and truly reveal which clans are "dead". I've tried to poke the clans to see if they were alive and I got no response from any except the Order. I was considering getting an inter-clan contest going but I don't see the point if only one clan is active at all.


while this site/forums is very casual driven, there is an increasing amount of people joining who are into the tournament scene, or at least a "less casual casual scene"...I feel as if the site is catering to one type of player, but we have a vast diversity of different types of players. I think we need to look into forming some activities for the less casual players. (see spoiler in point #2)

This is a point I've raised to other moderators as it as new. Some actually wanted to get rid of the tournament deck section. Some staff and members don't believe serious and casual go along together at all - like Spike / Johnny and Spike / Timmy don't exist at all. Several staff stepped up to say attention to the serious is needed as well - just not a focus. One cool thing I like is that FNM is alive and well in the blog - check it out if you haven't seen it. Like I said when defending the tournament forum - just because it's a casual site doesn't mean people still don't go to tournaments or have dreams of playing against pros.


I also believe that the writer's strike may have contributed somewhat to the decline in activity as well.

Believe it or not forum activity was massively up during the strike, posts per day seem to have risen to a new high for several weeks after it ended. Active users are slightly less now than during the Writer's Strike, though In the guild itself, January saw flurries of articles getting written by people, but now it's basically slow again.

It may be the time of the year and probably is. Feburary is the slowest month of the year just about in America. Burn out from resolutions and life style changes hits and drudgery comes back. Life for many feels like a chore - and sadly until Shadowmoor resparks the population it'll be true for Magic as well. Summer will also show a major user base peak here. Right now is a major internet lull for activity - almost on par with Thanksgiving to Christmas time.


I think there are a lot of people who love this site as much as I do, and I think there's a lot of things we can do to help Streetz out. We all have our own skills. I think it's time we all put them to good use. Which brings me to my next example.

There we go the heart of the matter. Ask not what MDV can do for you, ask what you can do for MDV. You want to see active people? Get active. You want to see change? Spark change. If you want to see clan activity call out the dead ones - challenge them - question if they're really a clan at all. I like where your head is at and I'd like to see if your motivation makes anything a reality. MDV has always favored the bold and outgoing.

[Syphon]

Why am I referred to here and in other posts? What'd I do?

On topic: I am not sure whether MORE contests would be such a good idea. There's too many running already. Also, when I tried to make a new thread, it was immediately banished to the nether regions of this place, so I am thinking: "Why would this matter?".

[Yawgmoth]

I am sure this need a topic of it's own - but something that would definitely help MDV in an uncountable amount of ways, would be converting the main site into using php instead of html. I am no expert in the matter, but it would be far easier to update and maintain a php-powered website (which can be updated with scripts and stuff, sort of like a blog if you have no idea what I am talking about). This should be taken into contrast with the way you update a html-based website, which you basically upload stuff from your computer onto the server and have to update everything by hand. I think php-based websites use a database, that can be updated easily (if you have scripts and stuff) and Streetz could appoint people that he trust to administrator-status - those could login and update the site in realtime without having to have access to Streetz's computer (or all the files that make up the website.)

This would take a heavy amount of stress away from Streetz, but we would need someone who Knows Stuff to implement it. (I guess it was something similar that that weird guy tried to do? What was his name? BB?) It would also make things much simpler for everyone (and we could take the moment to redesign the website so that it is simpler to use (sort of like the official Magic-site or something.))

This would make everyone very happy, and people who are happy post more.

All problems in the world are now solved, by Yawgmoth!

(Note that I have no real idea how php-coding actually works, I just know that it is very useful.)

[Syphon]

who will do that, though?

[Yawgmoth]

Maybe that BB/ASF-guy that was admin here before? Or maybe someone else, some random member, knows enough of php to do something? Maybe someone's friend, or MDV could announce it's interest in "hiring" someone with php-knowledge. (I do not know if MDV can afford to actually pay someone, so maybe we could just give the individual... Something else. Happiness?)

I will however attempt to learn some stuff about php, and if the project hasn't started before I become somewhat adept at it - I could do it. Although I would prefer not, since I still do not have a good way to balance "working" as an artist with being a clan leader and active individual of the Vortex (and other places).

[Syphon]

Well, I do know of a friend of mine who knows PHP, I think...He would do it for a low fee, since he IS my pal, but hey, he too needs money. Maybe we could chip in together? It'd really reinforce the "us" thing, you know, the community.

[Yawgmoth]

If he has the skills and the fee is not to high - I see no problems. Although, it would be preferable to have it done for free. Which is why I think Butte/Betty Blue or whatever should be considered, if he/she/it still hangs around. If that individual is dead (meaning inactive or uninterested), then we should consider alternatives. Syphon's friend is probably a good alternative.

[Michael_Zeora]

Luther and I have been working on streamlining the Mainsite for some time now, the coding is coming slowly, but it's happening. BTW - it's CSS/XHTML/JavaScript based. PHP is still an option, but we'd need someone who's good enough in PHP.

On the Clan Contests, I'd like to put to gather maybe a Season (where everyone plays everyone else twice (2 Best 2 out of 3 matches) in which each match would gain points, each person also loses points. We can keep it within a casual pool of cards or even change it up depending on how the Contest Moderators feel.

[Cashew]

Problem with PHP is the architecture - it is free, but it requires specific server backing - but Streetz would have to be on the correct type of server/hosting and would have to revamp the whole site. Considering it's run by a sole person right now via Front Page - any kind of conversion will be very slow and ardous. It's also important to note that without Streetz blessing and understanding of the coding it's its a null feat.

Seeing that he uses frontpage I'd be more inclined to say his archiecture is windows based and would have to ASP not PHP - but that's a very educated guess. Recoding the site would take a good coder probably a month unless they could dedicate serious time due to the sheer number of things in the site - combos, articles, like 10 different kinds of spoilers all with unique organizations, decks.

Of course all this being done would be under the banner of unifying the entire site. Meaning that if you click on a card it shows decks that it's in as well as combos as well as linking to spoilers that contain it, etc. Finding the images and coding the cards alone could take months unless another site has an SQL database they would loan or the coder is smart and skilled enough to spider out the gatherer.

I'm just talking hyoptheitically. I can program and would pass at the amount of work needed to be done as I have a full time job that eats most of my time alraedy. A starving coder and a willing Streetz would be the way to go, as I've seen countless people attempt to redesign the site over the last year for Streetz and never get past a mock-up.

[Chrome_Kaldra]

A starving coder and a willing Streetz would be the way to go, as I've seen countless people attempt to redesign the site over the last year for Streetz and never get past a mock-up.

I'm no coder, but your talking about me aren't you? :(

Unfortunately it seems that those with the skills really don't have enough time. Plus, MZ and Luther are in different time zones, so that makes it at least a little awkward, and streetz is busy keeping the site up.

We need ButteBlues...or another programmer...Quick! Everyone make friends with coders! Lure them with pie! Anything! MDV needs your help!

I would help, but MZ is doing basically exactly what i would do...so...[/obsolete]

Besides, if they really needed my help, i'm sure they would of asked by now...:paranoid:[/hint]

[Syphon]

I got the ball rolling.[/proud]
I know plenty of coders, but if we have the in-house talent, we could just let them do it.

[Streetz]

For the record, I think BB is out for good. I have not seen the likes of him in a long time. Only time will tell. As far as a website redesign, if you own a bank -- let me know. I would need a $10,000 loan to even begin talking about a complete professional redesign of the entire site. :(

[Syphon]

Okay, I have contacted my friend. He said he was interested, but would like to know a few things. He wants to know how much work the overhaul would be, and more specifically, what there is to be overhauled.

[Yawgmoth]

Basically everything needs to be overhauled, if we want to make it good.

I am not exactly sure but, wouldn't the process be faster if we had more than one guy working on it?

And Streetz, a professional redesign would be soulless! We need dedicated nerds with too much free time.

[Friend Mairsil]

damn whats his face is right, this thread is hard to find. i too have contributed to the slowness, but i had reason, and well, im back again and slowly making my way back in.

anyways, i think i got a guy who knows some programing. ill talk to him today and let you all know. also i would like to help and make a few videos. and if theres anything you need from the hold, tell us.

[BurnBait]

damn whats his face is right, this thread is hard to find.

Am I still such a faceless entity? I swear, you guys are going to make me cry myself to sleep one of these days :D

I wish I could assist, but I'm afraid my particular skill set is fairly limited when it comes to technology. Tell me if you need anything, though, and I'll do what I can.

[Friend Mairsil]

dont feel bad homie, im just lazy and didnt feel like looking for who said it. :D

so what is happening to create more member/activity

[Tynion]

I wanted to pipe in for a second.

In regards to the Writer's Guild Strike: You are completly wrong about it. That gimick, er selfish act we caused worked wonders for this site. We have been tracking activity of the site since early January, we spiked at 200 active users during that time, which is greater than MDV has seen in quite sometime, if not ever!

What Cashew hinted at has come to fruition starting today. The MSS has been released upon all of you, and now you have reason to get your butts in gear and get involved in the MDV contests.

Talking about the contests, I will tell you why the contests are changing to single person control, and it is because of me. I take 100% responsibilty for the reason it is that way, but not why it became that way. Here is your story:

Before I took the reigns in the Guild, at any minute, any lame brain would start a contest, get a group of his buddies together and they would run any random contest. Loads of people would join up and play in the contests. Those contests would run for weeks, picking up steam, and then suddenly never finish. It could have been a holiday contest that was themed for a holiday that would get resolved in the following year, a contest that only needed a final judges result, a contest that suddenly died because a judge disappeared, etc. But these contests would leave a bad taste in my mouth, and I rarely got involved.

So when it came my turn to influence the MDV scene, I decided that I wanted t change this for the better. I wanted one man to take control of the entire scene, who will start contests up, who was a creative thinker, AND someone with the testicular fortitude to step in and force people to finish any thing that they started. (Believe it or not, that last part was the hardest part for anyone here to fullfill.)

Cashew became that guy and he is living up to the task.

Why have only one man run the show, because if we have three guys, then we have 3 times more chance of someone screwing the entire bit up. If you don't think so, then so skim through some old contests and find the wisdom behind my words.

As far as the commercials go.. You guys are the best commercial we could have. How often do you tell your friends to come here? When you are spending time over on other sites, do you talk about us? Put our web address in your other sigs. When you go to your FNM, tell your friends and opponents about our site. We could do commercials, but where and why? It is not like you can sell our site to a non-magic player. We need to take our brand and message to the audience, not broadcast it over a loud speaker and hope two people come see. That is wasted time and effort.

Suggestions?

[Yezzandrix]

Well, I have to admit, my activity declined a lot lately, and I am not exactly sure that is going to change heavily in the short future. Life got me again, you know, and I like it (her...) ;)

So I don't know about a general thing, really.

But I do feel that having something going on aside the regular deck discussions and rumor milling would create a stronger draft towards the site. Sometimes, you just need one reason to have a look (like the strike) and then you'll stay and roam the site, afterwards. The question is: What would create such a draft without beeing so much of a pain (work) so nobody is willing to commit? (Like we DID see in the past...)

[DazBoot]

thisis just something that I noticed that I though could fit in this topic. If anyone else has been keeping an eye on the online user stats, you might have noticed that there are times when we will have 50+ guests browsing the forum. It shows we are drawing the audience, now we just need the participation. Anyone else have thoughts on this issue?

[Tynion]

We have a stat we are tracking in the WRiter's Guild. It is the number of threads, posts, new users, and active accounts.

I have been tracking them mainly for the active accounts number. Since the beginning-middle of January, we are averaging around 187 active accounts. We peaked at 200 during the strike, and bottomed out around 174 when the strike ended. Both the First Impressions and Idol weeks boosted the ratings up back to around 190 or so.

If you are wondering what the active accounts are, you'll have to ask someone smarter than me, I just make up cool things and track screw ball numbers :D

[Friend Mairsil]

a benifet* of some sort for joining...not sure what, but its an idea.

[DazBoot]

Is there a stat of guests that we can track?

[Tynion]

I seem to remember someone saying that sometimes the guests could be bots surfing for info..

[Streetz]

Yes, many of those are actually search engine bots, spiders and crawlers. :)