Office of the Storylines

[Syphon]

Hello all, and welcome to my clinic: Odds and ends in the storylines.
Here, you can ask any story related questions you might have concerning Magic the Gathering. Don't worry if yours seems a stupid question, because:
There are no stupid questions, only those unasked

[Tynion]

What is the connection between Lorwyn's setting and the original worlds setting? Is it the same world?

[Syphon]

To my knowledge, no. I believe that the ones in/on Dominaria are taken from Lorwyn much like many races were put onto Mirrodin by Karn.

[Friend Mairsil]

syphon, if i may, i would like to help you in this here clinic. ive read almost every book 3 times minus the newest ones from lorwyn(just waiting to buy my fat pack ;)). so what say you sir?

[Syphon]

Hm. As long as you do not possess me, I suppose you're welcome to help. ^^

[Cashew]

Can you explain the theory and concept of the Dark and the transition to Fallen Empires?

Also why is the concept of Arabian Nights so close to Plane Earth?

[Syphon]

The Dark was the stage after the culmination of the Brothers' War. The Sylex had caused the climate to cool down and the world was getting fiercely anti-magic. Two schools were created, either hidden to make sure they were not found. Now, how does this tie in with Fallen Empires? It is quite simple. Five empires (those that fell) were under siege because of the cooling weather. The dwarves came under attack by goblins and orcs. The Vodalian merfolk came under attack by Homarids who came to the merfolk's territory because also the water there turned colder. The elves of the forest fought with their own thallids, in order to get cheap fighters/food. The same goes for the Ebon Hand, they created the thrulls for sacrificial fodder and soldiers. Lastly, the Icatians, once proud magic users were under attack by the religious anti-magic zealots from their own countries.

The concept of Arabian nights is based on 1001 Nights, so of course it looks like our earth. Now, there's a thousand versions of this place, called Rabiah. At one point, there was a fracture and a thousand more planes that each slightly differed from one another, were created. Many things from that same story were used in Rabiah.

[shaitan666]

Hey Syphon, can you tell me what's exactly the thrull rebellion in FE?

Why was the Endrek fellow executed for creating Derelor? Just because the fat thing drained mana? That seems kinda harsh...

And is Shadowmoor really the opposite of Lorwyn (a place with eternal night)?

Thanks!

[Syphon]

The Thrull rebellion in Fallen Empires was basically the Ebon Hand being overrun by their sacrificial fodder. By themselves, they could not achieve such, but Endrek Sahr created intelligent thrull wizards to help with the sacrifices. Obviously, that sparked the revolt as the thrull wizards knew their kin were being used to fuel the sacrifices.

Now, he was indeed executed for creating the derelor. But why? You yourself said it. A derelor saps black mana all the time, which was taxing on the Ebon Hand's resources. Because of this, Endrek was killed. As a result, he never lived to see the Thrull rebellion.

I cannot say that Shadowmoor is an opposite definately. I think it might be, but as I said, no certainties.

[Cashew]

Can you explain the anomoly of how Endrek Sahr time bubbled into the vast future, but was killed during the Fallen Empires era.

I know the story of FE and The Dark - what I don't know is how they are linked - I heard there is a major one.

Also I never really understood the Farrel cult - have any informaiton on them?

[Syphon]

As far as I can tell, a rift took Endrak Sahr into the future before he was executed. That being said, it still seems strange that his card would be dealing with death at 7+ thrulls. Perhaps it is the inevitable fate of the thrull creators.

The link between FE and the Dark is simple: It is set in the same world, but different continents. The link here is how different nations are affected by the Ice Age in different ways.

Now, the Farrelites were followers of one Oliver Farrel, opponents of the Order of the Ebon Hand. Interesting fact: Farrel was responsible for the death of one Tymolin Loneglade, whom left him after he expressed interest in her. Curiously enough, this drove her brother so mad, he became a demon. A planeswalker demon. The Doom of Fools. That is, until he was killed by some planeswalker other guy. I think it had something to do with mythology (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Nine_Titans).

[Syphon]

Any more questions? There's so many questions, I am sure. I can answer all of them! :D

[GRUNT]

Now that I'm done with the MOrningtide novel, I can ask more! :P

1) What was Maralen's end of the deal she struck with Oona? From what I can tell, we don't know yet, but maybe you have more insight than I do :P.

2) What was the point of Ashling's ritual with the Sapling at the end of the Morningtide novel?

3) Do we still not know what it was that attacked Maralen at the start of the Lorwyn novel? D:

[Syphon]

Okay, I have not read anything relating to this novel, so I am going to go out on a limb here and try to figure it out using the interwebs. What I found was this:


* Lorwyn is transforming into Shadowmoor at the onset of the Aurora. The world changes from idyllic daytime into creeping darkness and gloom (and yes, the swamps don't look happy).
* The Aurora causes a change from daylight to nighttime, almost like a planar overlay such as with Rath and Dominaria. Something, perhaps Colfenor's ritual of yew-lore rebirth has caused this one to be premature(?). It frightens even the elementals.
* The coming darkness is responsible for the cannibalistic change in the boggarts, and more, including the seeming extinction of the Flamekin (Ashling is perhaps the only one who can stop that). In the end, the Elves become the hunted ones in a twist of irony. A dream-harvest of Rosheen Meanderer shows the change in Lorwyn, where Elf lands become encroached upon by the more feral tribes.
* The Merfolk are turning feral due to this corruption. There's more to it than this, but skim-reading got this much out of it. Brigid inadvertantly causes even Sygg to go mad (when he could have avoided the effects; it involves an elemental-based artifact called the Crescent of Morningtide).
* The seedling Colfenor had Rhys plant is not Colfenor reborn. It's a "female", though the gender usage is inaccurate, according to the sapling; it prefers to be "it" rather than "he" or "she. She also knows of Oona (perhaps even personally), who has many names including Godflower.
* Oona is trying to subvert Maralen, who indentured herself to Oona to escape death or something in Glen Elendra.
* Even Oona doesn't know everything, only Rosheen Meanderer seems to have that distinction; this was hinted in Rei Nakazawa's article, but even the Giants respect Rosheen's longevity and knowledge. Rosheen predates Colfenor and a number of ancient Treefolk; she is one of the oldest living beings in Lorwyn aside from Oona who seems to be the eldest.
* Brion and Kiel didn't die from moonglove poisoning in Lorwyn.
* Rhys' "nuclear bomb" was caused by a strange sort of resonance between Maralen, himself, and Oona, the latter of which seems to be how Maralen ended up meeting with Rhys after he "detonated".
* There are "outcast" Faeries called the Groundless, Faeries that somehow do not have wings (they were born wingless). They're not quite the same way as eyeblighted Elves are, but close.
* Rhys joins up with the secret "eyeblight society" Nath was a part of, but this is due to the Perfect Eidren (who is one of the few Perfects aware of it) recruiting him after capturing him. In other words, Eidren made him the offer to rejoin as an "elf" and effectively clear his charges, in a manner of speaking. Hard to say how Gryffid will take that, though.
* If you live on Lorwyn, don't make Oona mad. She's a nasty one when she wants to be.

[Tynion]

What was the end result of FE? Were there 'Alliances' in those empires? Or did they all perish and we only focus on Ice Age with Alliances?

Also, before the inner color wars, did the Ebon Hand war against the Lietbur?

Finally, is there a connection between the Order of the Ebon Hand and Knights of Stromgald/Order of Lietbur and Order of the White Shield groups?

[Syphon]

The end result of FE is the extermination of all forces on Sarpadia other than thallids and thrulls. There were no actual alliances to speak of, other than trade between the more civilised nations that were not black-aligned.

The Knights of Stormgald are in fact zombified creatures made by Mairsil the Pretender, who was possessing a mage. I think it was Lim-Dûl he possessed. The Order of the Ebon hand had nothing to do with them. The Order of Leitbur and White Shield were also not related.

[Tynion]

So did the Thrulls and Thallid fight each other? How did the heck Thallids win a war? Did they get a mana screwed elf population?

[Syphon]

I do not think the Thrulls and Thallid fought one another. They might've recognized they were not so dissimiliar from one another. If they did, we might hear from it later, since we haven't been to Sarpadia in a while.
The Thrulls and Thallids won by the same virtues: numbers and adaptability.
Edit: Further scouring of the web reveals that the Elves that created the Thallids in fact used information taken/stolen from the Order of the Ebon Hand. Also, the Thrulls seemed to have overrun the Thallids later, as well. It isn't explicitly stated but implied, since the entire continent was overrun by Thrulls.

[Tynion]

Interesting reading. Do you know if the Thrulls ever further developed themselves, like the Ebon Hand evolved them. If so, how different are they than Slivers in that they overrun places and adapt to situations with numbers etc.

[Syphon]

Personally, I do not think the Thrulls changed beyond what forms they had during the rebellion and the subsequent wars with other races. I usually do not take to other columns directly, but this one page I do not want to hold from you:
Tea and Biscuits with Pete Venters (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mc93).
For those of you unwilling to find the relevant pieces of text, here you go:


PV: Here's another piece of trivia—during the wars depicted in Fallen Empires, it was the thrulls that won control of Sarpadia. No one else could match their ability to react and evolve. Supposedly the orcs gave them the hardest fight but when the thrulls started creating Cave-Stormers (a creature composed of a central mouth ringed with razor sharp teeth surrounded by eight legs that could charge through orc caves, turning anything it met into a meaty red vapor without even decelerating) the end was in sight for the orcs. I'd still like to see that sucker on a card.

MC: When did this happen? What was the historical context with regard to Magic sets?

PV: The thrulls probably took less than fifty years to dominate Sarpadia. There's no historical context as Sarpadia is so isolated. The only reason that the thrulls didn't go on to rule the world is that they lacked imagination and never realized that there was anything else beyond the horizon-line of water surrounding Sarpadia. We used to say, that if one day a ship came to Sarpadia it might be the beginning of the end for Dominaria.

Still, the Phyrexians beat them to it. However, you'll note that we never did learn what happened when the Phyrexians tried to invade Sarpadia.

MC: Did any of this thrull history or thrull vs. Phyrexian stuff appear on cards or in books?

PV: There was one tale that saw print in The Duelist where Phyrexians were questioning someone (possibly Endrek Sahr?) about the thrulls. I can't find the details now, but it may have hinted that the thrulls' creation involved some stolen Phyrexian devices. The Phyrexians were not only miffed at the theft of their secrets, but what they'd been used for. Still, rumor persists that the Phyrexians eventually had to admit that the thrulls showed promise and imported some of them into Phyrexia for study.

Even with the Phyrexians' laborious planning for the Invasion, they may have met far greater resistance than they imagined in Sarpadia. Even now there may be Thrulls trying to understand where the Phyrexians came from. Who knows? Maybe future products will contradict all of this; after all, if it hasn't seen print, it's not necessarily canon. But this is what I had planned. I'd love to see a future Magic set tackle these questions.


Now, as far as I can tell, the prime difference between Slivers and Thrulls is the fact that Thrulls do not share their changes with their kin. If one Sliver would learn to fly and it came near another, that other Sliver would learn to fly, and have the ability to teach that to another Sliver, throughout the entire hive.
Now, Thrulls evolve individually, and as a result they are not as dynamic as Slivers. You should compare the time it took for the Slivers to destroy a continent as opposed to the Thrulls. Both of them did triumph, but the Slivers were much faster.

[Tynion]

Its funny that as creatures on cards, they are so misrepresented. According to the story, these were amazing creatures. According to the cards, they sucked ash. Mindstab Thrull was good. It can be argued that Necrite was good. But beyond that, for what you paid, you didn't get much in return.

Question, whats with the bunny in the Ebon Preator's artwork? ;)

[Syphon]

Are you familiar with the Hare Club for Men?

[Tynion]

By name only..

[Syphon]

The bunny in Ebon Praetor was just a silly thing from a period when there wasn't a thing called "Style guide"

[Tekkactus]

How could the Time Rifts have weakened the barrier between the Utsushiyo and the Kakuriyo if the events of Time Spiral occured 700 years after the Kami War?

[Syphon]

One think to keep in mind is that the basis for all the rifts was laid as early as the Brothers' War. So things in the past will have had an effect on every rift.

[SKEITH]

Was there ever a rivalry in the stories/comics between some of the old cards such as Sengir Vampire and Serra Angel or White knight and Black knight?

[Syphon]

No, there was not. Not in story lines, anyway. You have to realise that they are from different planes. That doesn't mean that they never met, since Serra herself was a planeswalker. As for the knights, there is no story-wise instance of this rivalry. Of course, for both goes that they are opposite colours and would probably beat eachother silly upon sight.

[Zaknifa]

I am wondering if you know the answers to these questions.
1)What happened to the Homarids? They destroy a powerful merfolk country and disappear for the rest of magic just to appear here and there to make guest appearances.
2) what was the final result of Homelands, did the baron win?
3) What was the time line of the visions set? they never say what is happening around the plane as the kingdoms are fighting.
4) What is the Visions storyline?

[Syphon]

Oh! Sorry about this, Zaknifa. I hadn't checked here lately. Ahem.
As for your questions:
The Homarids will probably have been killed after the Fallen Empires storyline by rampaging Thrulls. However, their offspring, the Viscerids might still be alive. Who knows?

Ulgrotha is destroyed, as far as I can tell. Grandmother Sengir, also known as Ravi, sounded the Apocalypse Chime and destroyed it utterly.

The timeline of the Visions set is not very widely known, but one can roughly figure it out. Kaervek, the main enemy of Visions, was born circa 3700-3900 AR. (For those not in the know, here's a little spoiler for those who do not know about AR)

Argivian Reckoning, or AR for short, is the main calendar used on most of Dominaria, the continent of Corondor being a notable exception. It sets year 0 as the year in which both Urza and Mishra were born. It only came into use many years after the time of the Brothers, and was used informally for several thousand years before an attempt was made to clarify historical facts. It is named after New Argive, a country famed for its scholars. The last time the date was explicitly mentioned or could be directly derived from the storyline (Odyssey), it was 4306 AR. With the advent of Time Spiral block, the date can be gleened as around 4906 AR, supposing that Argivian Reckoning is still in use.
Now, if you take Kaervek's year of birth and reduce it with roughly the current age, you'll see that Kaervek's birth was about 1200 years ago. I think that the Jamuraan cycle, as Phyrexia.com calls it, takes place in the Empty Quarter, roughly when Urza was finding allies in the fight against the Phyrexians.

For the exact storyline of Visions, I refer you to this page:
That is, this one (http://www.phyrexia.com/continuity/Kaervek.shtml). Hope this answered your questions.

[Zaknifa]

Hey thanks for the answers.

[Syphon]

It's what I'm here for. Any more, just drop them right here. :D

[BurnBait]

I challenge you, syphon, to a contest of storyline understanding!

[Syphon]

A challenge? I accept! Normally, I get to choose the weapons, but I feel that there is no fun to be had in trouncing you in the first 2 seconds. What do you wish to fight about? :o

[BurnBait]

Ooh, that's tricky. I'm fond of characters, myself. How about the backstory of a major plot-mover (like urza, gerrard, or even orim)? Each person chooses the character described by the other player, so I'd choose the character you'd describe, you'd choose mine. And we'd play on good faith that neither of us would just wikipedia it, with a middleman like streetz or scion (random names, anybody well-established will suffice) to judge consistency and accuracy. Sound good to you? Any changes you'd request?

Edit: Or, we could choose a block for each other, and summarize the major developements of that block, and how they relate plane-wise to the rest of the multiverse.

[Syphon]

Very well. Characters it is. For you, I choose...Jolrael.

[BurnBait]

and for you... the brothers, Urza and Mishra. If you don't want to do both, feel free to choose.

As for Jolrael: Jolrael has herself a card, jolrael, empress of beasts. Aptly named. Jolrael was a recluse on the plane of Dominaria, born of Jamuraan descent. She didn't particularly like humans, though, and removed herself from the scene of civilization. She specialized in communicating with and controlling animals, which is why her card makes lands into hulking beasties. However, since she was fairly powerful in comparison to a normal person, so she senses the phasing out of teferi's isle. She, along with Kaervek, the merciless and mangara of corondor to try to understand what's going on, and bear witness to the aftermath of Teferi's disappearence. After this event, mangara unites the roughly equal rival nations of Zhalfir, Suq-Ata, and Femeref. Within ninety years, there's complete peace in the northern end of Jamuraa. On the other hand, Kaervek went with Jolrael back down to her forests, where she was flattered by his attentions (no one had ever really not feared her before, is my guess as to why she became so open to him), and taught him about living things, and how to manipulate them. Meanwhile, he wasn't there because he liked her, but rather because he was convinced Mangara had only united the three nation-states for personal gain. He persuaded Jolrael, over time, to the same point of view, and convinced her to start dabbling in Jamuraan politics, where she worked subvertly to undermine Mangara's rule. At the same time Kaerevek, who was from the burning isles, pulled together his quietly and hid them in Jolrael's forests. Those are the panthers from urborg and the nightstalkers, btw. Jolrael knew of this, and believing that she and Kaervek were working to prevent a dictatorship by Mangara, did the same with her vassals. Kaervek started a couple of border disputes between the united countries, while Jolrael caused a bit of infighting in the ranks of the leaders and lords of Zhalfir. Eventually, I can't remember the exact circumstance, but somebody died in one of those border disputes, and everything went to hell. Mangara had no idea what was going on, of course, so when Kaervek sent him an offer of assisstence, Mangara agreed. At the meeting place, Jolrael and Kaervek caught Mangara in a prison of amber, and Jolrael secreted him away to one of her many palaces. Kaerevek started to abuse his sway over Jolrael at about this point, and to use her minions like they were his. She started to get a little annoyed at this particular configuration. Meanwhile, he had the three kingdom's armies in virtual retreat, while his various lackeys meted out havoc in impressive quantities. Jolrael now understands that Kaervek was just out to trick her, so she tries to set Mangara free. It doesn't work. Kaervek doesn't know that though, so he still thinks Jolrael's his puppet. She sets out with him to Teferi's isle, which just phased back in. Kaervek attacks, and Teferi being a planeswalker and all, gets totally punked. In the middle of this, Jolrael makes her move, and attacks Kaervek. I can't remember quite what happens here, but Kaervek ends up in the marshes of uuserk, I believe, while Teferi rescues Jolrael. She limped home to her forest, and sat there for a few years. Eventually, the keldons attack her, but she manages to repel them with the assistance of Barrin, a wizard and colleague of Urza, and Barrin's cohorts.

What'd I miss?

[Syphon]

I almost was going to say "the amber prison" but you got it in there. Not bad, at all.
As for Mishra:
Mishra was pivotal in the hatred on Urza's part for the Phyrexians. Early on in life, they studied under an archeologist called Tocasia. When they found Thran artifacts (Caves of Koilos, ftw) things got out of hand and they started fighting eachother. This was over a powerstone, which split in half during the struggle. Tocasia died, and the Mightstone and Weakstone were formed. Now, during this foray, Mishra started to dabble in darker arts after being abducted by a tribe in the desert. Now, Mishra ended up in Phyrexia itself and during Urza's first foray there, he found the mangled version of Mishra. He had to fight it, and killed him, see Retaliation and Endoskeleton. But it turned out to be nothing more than a creature created by Phyrexians.
Now, before this, the Brother's war had taken place, causing the first time rifts after Urza detonated/used the Golgothan Sylex. This war was fought with Thran relics, powered and awakened by the respective halves of the powerstone the brothers broke.
That's about it for Mishra. I think it's canon, though I'd rather call Time Spiral non-canon, that Mishra was pulled into Time Spiral's time and he was inspired by what he saw there to use the Thran engines.

I can't help but put down this quote I found in one of the books in my possession:


“Brother, save me. Grasp my hand. ‘Walk me from this place! We can both escape this hell. Take me to some grassy place where the wind blows, that I may die in peace. Take me away. He will allow it. He has told me. Take me, Brother. Brother! Please! If there is any humanity left in you, take me away! Come back! Help me, Brother!”

[BurnBait]

All I see, flaw-wise, is a lack of mention that thran relics weren't the main weapons of the war. Rather, Mishra started out with a trio of phyrexian dragon engines, and then he built himself an army, backed by his female assistant Ashnod and her mutated humans (transmogrants). Urza, meanwhile, used entirely new designs, and while Mishra's were influenced by Gix and the phyrexian beliefs, Urza was creative. The only thing that really linked them to the thran was the use of thran powerstones as batteries. Also, what about Gix? The corruption of Mishra? It's pretty all encompassing, though, I've got to say.

[Syphon]

Actually, Urza was known to have used many Thran designs. Ornithopters, for instance.

[BurnBait]

Ornithopters he found before the caves, and used the powerstone to power it up and escape w/ tocasia and mishra. They gave him the idea for his designs, but, for instance, his clay golems and his colossus of sardia were completely his own. I believe it's covered when in "The Brother's War" by jeff something or other, Urza explains to another artificer that in fact it's not a mistake that the knees are backward, but rather that it was his personal design preference. The great majority of his warriors weren't thran in origin, since thran metal wasn't exactly easy to find. For the most part, he just took thran designs as a springboard.

[Tekkactus]

Ornithopters were only a Thran prototype, though. Urza built on them and actually made them viable. In a sense, he deserves more credit for their creation.

[BurnBait]

hey, tek: Would you be willing to judge that little contest between syphon and I?

[Friend Mairsil]

Urza explains to another artificer that in fact it's not a mistake that the knees are backward, but rather that it was his personal design preference. The great majority of his warriors weren't thran in origin, since thran metal wasn't exactly easy to find. For the most part, he just took thran designs as a springboard.

actually the knees were backwards because thats how the thran built them. he found the originals in the caves of kolios*. and alot of his designs were built solely on thran design. true he didnt have the metal (yet) , so he had to make due with what he had.


hey, tek: Would you be willing to judge that little contest between syphon and I?
id be willing to if tekk doesnt. im sort of a book nerd when it comes to magic. no really ask me anything.

[Syphon]

Alrighty, I'd go for that. :)

[BurnBait]

Yeah, mairsil, I'm good with you judging. I'm assuming you read the submission posts?

[Chrome_Kaldra]

okay, here's a doozy. Where/what are all the loose ends in the magic storyline so far?

[FrycHiKn]

This is an opinion kinda question...


Which is the best MTG book that you ever read?
Which will you recommend to read? (Storywise recommendation)

[Syphon]

okay, here's a doozy. Where/what are all the loose ends in the magic storyline so far?

We never found out what Nicol Bolas' favourite food was!
Nor whether Kar-Sengir is the home plane of Baron Sengir or his relatives. Or whether it is a plane or a place.
Time spiral gave us more than enough loose ends to try and tie up. So I cannot mention ALL of them.
I haven't read all that many MTG novels, but I liked Arena. It's where I got my last name from. :)

[BurnBait]

hich is the best MTG book that you ever read?
Which will you recommend to read? (Storywise recommendation)

If I may answer that one, syphon, the single most defining books in the series (I think) are The Brother's War and The Thran. The first is by Jeff Grub, and the second by J. Robert King. The thran determines the entire backstory of phyrexia, and who the thran were, while The Brother's War covers the rise of Urza and Mishra from brothers to warring adversaries, and the basis of the phyrexian invasion which would occur several lifetimes later, as well as the ascent by Urza from artificer to a virtual god.

[Friend Mairsil]

what ^ said along with every book after that, until you hit prophecy*. then just skip til marcadian mauques* then continue on. really the two best books IMO are brothers war and chainers torment. the cycle of books that those two came from are great reads too.

[Michael_Zeora]

I enjoyed the Ravnica and Guildpact novels (not so much the DIS novel) and the TS novels were well rounded, even though soap opera ish

[BurnBait]

lol! I'd wondered what bothered me about those, but now I understand! Nicely put. Yeah, there are some pretty fabulous books, and just reading all of them is a good idea... I think WoTC should make anthology collections, though. For instance, the Mirari saga would be a compilation of the oddessy blocks' books, along with any chronologically similar short stories... or even just bundle them together like random house does with harry potter books, selling all seven in one big pack. Imagine, the complete collection in chronological order with appropriate short stories interspersed. The entire history of Dominaria. That'd be pretty cool, especially if they were special addititon, and sold at a discount much deeper than it'd be to buy them seperately. It would convince people to spend more money to get more stuff... kind of like those people who go to costco each week and buy twenty four rolls of toilet paper. They can't possibly use it all, but it's much cheaper than getting four.

[Mad Mat]

Best magic book is most definitely Chainer's Torment. I haven't read The Brother's War, but I can't even imagine what it'd have to do to beat the awesomeness of Skellum.

[I]Skellum!

You can't beat someone who

-is a kick-ass Nightmare summoner.
-wears a silly hat.
-got mangled by wolf-monkeys.

It's the unholy trinity.

[Syphon]

Looks like Chainer did get beaten, though ;)

[Syphon]

Mods! I request this thread's name is changed to the Office of the Storylines.
It is official, we are an office now. We are not legion, though. It's Mairsil, Burnbait and me who are the officials. :)

[Friend Mairsil]

Looks like Chainer did get beaten, though
that he did, but if it was a fair fight betwen the two (i.e. chainer was sane and not overextended), i would have put my money on chainer. i mean come on a barbarian with a big sword taking out a dementia summoner/chain fighter.

o i like that new office smell...but i wont wear a tie :D

[Syphon]

We are in business! *wears a sparkly black mana tie* :D
We even have a water cooler, look! *gets a drink* If there are any questions on storylines, ask us!

[Zaknifa]

Me personally I would like to know the answer to this question.
Question: What is the storyline behind Legends and/or Alpha?

[Syphon]

There is no real story behind it as in the later sets. It was a story with randomly made names. One card, for instance, is named after friends of Garfield's, the most obvious being Mons' Goblin Raider.

[BurnBait]

The original storyline was more or less a disjointed bunch of cards in a game Garfield made in his basement. I believe storylines started with Arabian Nights, and even that's pushing it.

Edit: I'm an informer on here? SICK!!! Thx, syphon. Btw, I sent the PM to streetz, but he hasn't responded yet :P

[Cashew]

Okay, looking for help here, maybe in the wrong place - I'm lookng for anyone that has any knowledge of the early Duelist issues and any lore contained there in. As there is no Fallen Empires "Book" looking for any extra lore hidden inside it. I'm also looking for anyone who has read "The Secrets of Magic" particuarlly the story of the Elvish Scout/Hunter.

[Yawgmoth]

Question: What is the storyline behind Legends and/or Alpha?

Sorry to intrude but, I have answers for this question you did not provide. First, yes - Alpha has no storyline outside that you are planeswalkers battling for stuff. Legends on the other hand did not come into print with a storyline, just a bunch of scattered pieces of Dominaria - however, later on two trilogies were made. Legends I and Legends II, they tell the stories of most of the Legends from Legends (like Jedit, Johan, Hazezon and all the good folk.) For modern players , points of interest could be that it includes the descendant of Umezsawa from Kamigawa, and the famed Nicol Bolas.

[Friend Mairsil]

I'm also looking for anyone who has read "The Secrets of Magic" particuarlly the story of the Elvish Scout/Hunter.

right here homie, what do want to know?

[FrycHiKn]

So.. What's t3h dillio with the black oil that Memnarch cleaned in the Galdroon palace? Why did that changed it/him?

[BurnBait]

There are a couple of schools of thought when it comes to that. The first is that it was blinkmoth serum, and due to the amplificatory nature of the mirari, which memnarch had used to be, the sudden, amplified, explosion of knowledge drove him insane, which led to his degenerating mental state. That's not my personal preference, since it implies in the book that he didn't notice anything was ever wrong, and when you can suddenly sense ten thousand times what you used to, you can probably be pretty sure something's changed.

The second one (and the more likely of the two, in my opinion) is that it was phyrexian oil he cleaned up, and it did a bit of work on his psyche. This is much more realistic, in my opinion, since it would explain why a golem equivalent began to feel the emotion of loneliness, and proceeded to redesign the plane of Argentum he was left by Karn into the metal-organic Mirrodin. It'd also explain why he started taking blinkmoth serum in increasingly massive doses, since such an action would have obviously led to the insanity revealed in the events of the glissa saga.

[3nd3r]

i always knew it had to be the damned machines up to no good from beyond the grave. (One question though can machines die in the clasical sense???)

[Friend Mairsil]

One question though can machines die in the clasical sense???)
well truthfully that depends on which machine you speak of. for instance, Gix was a machine in the latter parts of his life, and when he was destroy'd by urza/xancha/Ratape i would say he died. seeing as he started off alive. though on the other hand, there are machines that dont pocess a "soul" such as, the original thran army, thus since they were never truly alive they could never truly die.


This is much more realistic, in my opinion, since it would explain why a golem equivalent began to feel the emotion of loneliness, and proceeded to redesign the plane of Argentum he was left by Karn into the metal-organic Mirrodin
i would tend to agree, if it had not been for the fact that Karn had made this machine. now the basic law of god state that you build something closely resembling yourself. I.E. phyrexians resemble yawgmoth, and urza toy atuomations. so i could only be wise to think that karn built this little dude after himself, and if you remember Karn had the exact same problem. he would feel every bit of pain from his memoeries, cause he could never forget. i believe this was the same with Memnarch. Karn left him be alone after he had been able to witness great many things. i feel it was more the sense of loneiness that drove him mad. seeingas he was left alone for ages while karn went out to explore the multiverse some more.
now i think you maybe right about the phyrexian oil, but to what end would it serve. the book never stated if it was phyrexian in origin. though if it was im sure it was just the fact that oil was there. no i think it was more that karns memories ignited within Memnarch, reminding him of his true creaters, the thran which would translate into phyrexian.

[Luthervamplord]

Okay, here's a biggy of a question: Can someone supply me with a timeline for the event relating to the planeswalkers, such as the discovery of their powers, destroying/creating a rift, deaths and rebirths, etc

[Syphon]

That is an enormous timeline you are asking for, Luther. I am afraid that it would be a project rather than a question. I mean, if you want -all- planeswalkers...Commodore Guff..Lord Windgrace...we'll be busy a long while. And I don't have that kind of time to dedicate to this. I love storylines, but that much is beyond what I can/should give.

[Luthervamplord]

Alright; let's concentrate on the big two - Karn and Urza; they're the one's I'm truely interested in. Though a complete timeline is something alot of people would like to have, helps with the following of events and the nature of rifts.

[Yawgmoth]

Although I am not part of this "Office", I want to help you Luther.

As for Urza, Phyrexia.com has an excellent article about that old man: http://www.phyrexia.com/continuity/Urza.shtml

Karn as Planeswalker basically begins where Urza ends, and most we know about him is that he caused the whole Odyssey/Onlsaught-storyline with his stupid orb and then later created a super-evil-mega-villain from it (although it only became super-evil-mega-villain because it was corrupted by some black oily substance, which some suspect is Phyrexian glistening oil or some of disease/plague (Mycosynth) developed for the Great War. Then he did his Time Spiral-thingies and gave some cliffhanger-hints towards Big Evil and disappeared (in time?) after sealing his rift.

I do not know what rifts Karn was responsible for, but I guess some of the apocalyptic events in Odyssey/Onslaught. Mirrodin did not create an Dominaria-rifts to my knowledge. Urza basically created rifts everytime he blew something big up. (Argoth, Tolaria, etc.)

I would be willing to do more research but I do not have many of the books where I am at the moment, so I can basically only compile information from around the Internets (and what memories I have.) A complete timeline would be very interesting to make, but I must complete my Yawgmoth-trilogy first though.

[BurnBait]

I'll post what I know on here when I compile it, but it'll take awhile, since his story actually spans about eleven books...

[Friend Mairsil]

I do not know what rifts Karn was responsible for, but I guess some of the apocalyptic events in Odyssey/Onslaught. Mirrodin did not create an Dominaria-rifts to my knowledge. Urza basically created rifts everytime he blew something big up. (Argoth, Tolaria, etc.)

Karn helped make a rift when he traveled back in time as urzas Probe...ironry*, him as a probe caused a rift, and the probe he made became and evil villian...i thin i see a pattern of : DONTUSE PROBES!!!

^ is right, ill do what i can, and compare with BB (wow this is lots betterthan Burn...)

[Yawgmoth]

Hmm, I consider Karn merely a tool for a purpose at the time, thus it was Urza that solely created that time-related rift.

@BurnBait: Would it not be better to make it a sort of Storylines-project for all of those that are interested and capable of helping? Thus easing the burden for you and making this forum useful for something

[Syphon]

I do not know what rifts Karn was responsible for, but I guess some of the apocalyptic events in Odyssey/Onslaught. Mirrodin did not create an Dominaria-rifts to my knowledge. Urza basically created rifts everytime he blew something big up. (Argoth, Tolaria, etc.)

Karn was indirectly responsible for pretty much every rift caused from Odyssey onwards to the end of Scourge. Also, I have to add that Urza did not blow up Tolaria. It was Barrin. Obliterated the whole damn island. Well, pretty much the whole damn thing. West Tolaria still stands. Or stands again, whatever floats your boat.

[Yawgmoth]

Allright, *mobilizes defense*

One could argue that Urza caused Barrin's downfall in some ways, but what I meant with Tolaria was the time-related incident with Karn (Karn was mostly just a tool for the purpose at the time and thus is not really responsible in any meaningful way in my opinion.) And with "apocalyptic events in Odyssey/Onslaught" I tried to imply that Karn was responsible for rifts through those (due to his happy sphere.) Sorry for failing to get what I was trying to say through.

(Also, I am a bit sad that Barrin's sacrifice was downgraded from making the entire island into glass to just making most/some of it glass.)

[Syphon]

Allright, *mobilizes defense*

One could argue that Urza caused Barrin's downfall in some ways, but what I meant with Tolaria was the time-related incident with Karn (Karn was mostly just a tool for the purpose at the time and thus is not really responsible in any meaningful way in my opinion.) And with "apocalyptic events in Odyssey/Onslaught" I tried to imply that Karn was responsible for rifts through those (due to his happy sphere.) Sorry for failing to get what I was trying to say through.

(Also, I am a bit sad that Barrin's sacrifice was downgraded from making the entire island into glass to just making most/some of it glass.)

Karn was completely conscious of what he did by the time he used the time machine to go back in time to stop Jhoira from being killed. If you do want to point fingers, go to the top and just say it was Urza. I think that's the quickest way.

[Yawgmoth]

The quickest way would be to blame the Halcyon (or Thran) Council for (almost) EVERYTHING. They created Yawgmoth, who in turn started the series of events* that resulted in the Time Spiral.

(*-actually not all of them, I guess that Grandmother Sengir would still use the Apocalypse Chime and other things would happen as well.)

[Syphon]

As I said to you in MSN IMs I will now repeat this:
There is not a certain way to point the finger at one event. Possibilities.

[Tekkactus]

Obliterate didn't cause Tolaria's rift. That rift was created by Urza's failed time experiments; the one that made Teferi ascend and Jhoria immortal. Obliterate just... pried it open wider? That's why it was the most powerful rift.

[Syphon]

I never said that. The start of it took place when the time machine failed.

[Tekkactus]

I never said that. The start of it took place when the time machine failed.

Yes thank you for repeating me. I was responding to Yawgmoth's "Time Rift wherever Urza blew a place up" comment.

[Yawgmoth]

Think of it as a "time-explosion" then.

[DarkRequiem]

Ok guys, I have 2 questions for you.

1st, what might it be that Karn saw on the rift? Might it have been Urza? Yawgmoth? Something else and completely unrelated?

2nd, who was Greven before falling under Volrath's control through the spine graft?

And one last as a bonus: where's Serra?

[SKEITH]

Who created the Slivers? and why did they show up again in the Time spiral saga

[BurnBait]

1st, what might it be that Karn saw on the rift? Might it have been Urza? Yawgmoth? Something else and completely unrelated?

2nd, who was Greven before falling under Volrath's control through the spine graft?

I don't think he saw anything, for the first question. Instead, I believe his memories from before, which he'd restrained in a manner not unlike Jodah, broke free due to unexpected power of the rift. Somehow, that memory surge pulled off the equivalent of a computer corruption or overload, and Karn ent through the portal before the sudden corruption mucked up his system too much, and his planeswalker powers got out of control. After all, an uncontrolled planeswalker flame is probably on par with all out nuclear war during the time of the USSR-USA stand off during the latter half of the twentieth century.

Greven was originally a normal guy in the en-vec tribe, the same place paladin en-vec comes from. However, he was arrogant and greedy, so he was quickly and easily turned into a pawn by the evincars of Rath. He was incredibly proficiant when it came to killing stuff, so he got a bunch of phyrexian physical enhancements that made him even faster and stronger than before. He was given control of the predator, also. BTW, the spinal graft didn't actually put him under the control of Volrath: Rather, it allowed Volrath to essentially ignite all the nerve endings in his body simultaneously, which ends up having a pavlov's dog reaction. If you don't obey, it hurts. Badly.

Thirdly, as for serra, the stories conflict. Supposedly she died, when Feroz was killed and she was shanked by a disguised plansewalker. One of the onslaught novels, though, I think it was scourge, said she was live. It's all kind of confusing, but I'd bet that she's toast.


Who created the Slivers? and why did they show up again in the Time spiral saga

We're not sure. We do know, however, that they were found on Rath and modified by Volrath (though I'm not sure quite what he did to them), and that the reason why they were in TS was because they were in onslaught block, also set on dominaria. Remember, slivers are pretty integral to the history of this game, so bringing them back was a pretty good call. However, if you want to know why they were in ONSLAUGHT, here's the lowdown: A bunch of wizard archaeologists found sliver fossils, and pulled a Jurassic park. They revived them. However, being stupid like wizards are, they didn't bother bringing back the controlling factor, the queen, and the slivers just trashed the wizards and their island facility. It was called the Riptide Project, btw. You should find reference to it on a number of cards. Anyways, the mirari on the mainland apparantly sounded marginally like the hive-call of their queen, so they chased it down. And were, for the most part, wiped out when akroma, phage, and that old chick called Zagorka all died simultaneously, and made the crazy false god called Karona. The TS rifts picked up some slivers sometime before then, which is rationale behind why they ended up in the set.

[SKEITH]

whats the deal with the Atogs did they ever show up in the stories?

and on a side note whats the deal with there names,
So far I heard only two explanations that seem plausible:
1- its an anagram of goat in refrence to them eating constantly
2- Artifacts TO Graveyard.

[DarkRequiem]

Thanks for the quick reply. :)

[Syphon]

whats the deal with the Atogs did they ever show up in the stories?

and on a side note whats the deal with there names,
So far I heard only two explanations that seem plausible:
1- its an anagram of goat in refrence to them eating constantly
2- Artifacts TO Graveyard.

They never appeared in stories, they are more an inside joke to wizards.
The first explanation you offer is the right one. It's indeed an anagram of goat, but not for eating constantly. Rather, they eat everything. But yes, you are right. :)

[Friend Mairsil]

where's Serra?

seeing as BB anwsered the first two quite well i figure ill tackle this one. Serra is alive though at the moment within the storilines she is still planeswalking...im not sure if the events in TS effected her...only time will tell.


Who created the Slivers? and why did they show up again in the Time spiral saga
Volrath created the little bastards, and they showed up cause they never left. they came with Rath in the domoria* planeshift. at first they were experiments by, well, your truly, then after he lost his title as envinctar* no bother with his experiments, thus they got out (which was during gerrards attack on the stronghold).

[BurnBait]

I'm pretty sure volrath didn't actually create slivers... he just genetically modded them. Also, I'm pretty sure that slivers were on Dominaria before the planeshift, but when they got seen by the residents of DOM, they suddenly knew whos fossils they were looking at.

[Maleficent]

whats the deal with the Atogs did they ever show up in the stories?

One actually did appear in the short story "An Atog Comes to Aphetto" in the Monsters of Magic anthology. Funny little guy.

Volrath created Metallic Slivers to gain some influence over the hive, and he also kept Sliver Queen prisoner. I'm not sure about any actual changes he made to them though, if any. According to Cashew, the Vodalians created Slivers. Not sure about that. *shrugs*


Thirdly, as for serra, the stories conflict. Supposedly she died, when Feroz was killed and she was shanked by a disguised plansewalker. One of the onslaught novels, though, I think it was scourge, said she was live. It's all kind of confusing, but I'd bet that she's toast.

Serra didn't show up in the Onslaught Block. In Scourge, when Karona spoke with someone of each mana color, Teferi was there for White. (The others were Multani for Green, Fiers for Red, Yawgmoth for Black, and Ixidor/Lowallyn for Blue.) I think Serra died, but I'm not sure.

[Friend Mairsil]

Volrath created Metallic Slivers to gain some influence over the hive, and he also kept Sliver Queen prisoner. I'm not sure about any actual changes he made to them though, if any. According to Cashew, the Vodalians created Slivers. Not sure about that. *shrugs*

i couldve sworn he made them. i mean how couold nature create something as evil as them? ok maybe not the perfect wording for the question ,but hey you get what i mean. also i thought that frelyise* cursed volrath for his creations.

[Michael_Zeora]

Based on the MTGS Wiki (here (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Slivers))

It says the first of them appeared on Rath, from where is unknown. Volrath did modify them to what extent is still unknown and of course, the cheap knock offs that is Metallic Sliver

[Syphon]

Cheap, but effective. It was too effective, and Volrath lost control of it. Not that it mattered, but that's the point.

[FrycHiKn]

To anwser the question: "Where is Serra?" Just to be sure, where did I get my infooo... Allow me to introduce a card from a beloved, the best and only expansion:

:devil:Homelands:devil:


Behold: Serra Aviary


She is dead :P

[Syphon]

That was pre-revision, however. Keep that in mind.

[Chrome_Kaldra]

Hey i've got a question!

Did we ever find out what the black goo that landed on Mirrodin was? What did it do again? I remember vaguely that it was what made memnarch paranoid or something...

How many Mirari are there? Aren't they probes or something that Karn/Memnarch sent out to abduct life to Mirrodin or something...:confused:

How old are the Elves of the Tangle, or say, Glissa? Do they have parents?

Does Kaldra have a backstory!?!?!? [I find it strange that they made the 3 equipment the set logo + preRl cards and then have him in the book for like 5 minutes...]

Clarification would be nice.

[Yawgmoth]

1) The black goo was according to the writer (I think he posted on MTGSalvation) Phyrexian oil or something similar, brought to Mirrodin when Karona jumped around the planes (probably got it when she visited Phyrexia.) But that was only his explanation and if Wizards ever contradict it, their explanation trumps his. I believe it was the source of Mycosynth.

2) Mirari was not used for abducting lifeforms, there was only one Mirari (I think) and that became Memnarch - he used soul cages (or something) to catch lifeforms from other planes to Argentum/Mirrodin.

3) I did not read the Mirrodin-cycle, but I would guess that since Glissa somehow remembers her old world (I think?) their age is equal to the time they have stayed on Mirrodin + the time they spent before they came there, on their homeplane. I seem to have vague memories of some sort of thing related to them and/or Trolls cleansing their memories.

4) Kaldra is mystery man to me, I believe he/it was only mentioned in the book (except for the equipments) and that he/it was some old legendary hero.

[Syphon]

1) Judge is still out on this one. Either Phyrexia-ness or simply Blinkmoth Serum.
2) There were more probes like the Mirari but none were warped like the Mirari was.
3) No clue. Do not busy myself with that set.
4) Ditto.

[Friend Mairsil]

2) There were more probes like the Mirari but none were warped like the Mirari was.

just to add to this. the probes were a way for karn to view/explore whole world without ever needing to visit them. for short, he sent a buttload of eyes aross the multiverse, so that he may learn and blah blah blah.

[Syphon]

True dat. I think there might be more stories in the pipeline with those probes.

[BurnBait]

Of course there are. Wizards needs an income, after all :P

The book mentioned that memnarch has been aware since before the dawning of the first sun, at which point he got pretty freaked out due to the lack of blinkmoths- he was already a knowledge druggy at that point. Then, when they came back, he was relieved. A few hundred (?) relative years later, it happened again, but due to his consumption of serum, he believed the activation of the green sun would remove ALL blinkmoths. He couldn't survive without them, and even the replenishment ritual was to much to stand without his precious serum. I believe he started dragging stuff in from other planes many hundreds of years before the events of the book, since what glissa remembers aren't here own memories, but rather genetically coded species memories, ones that tell her she's horribly out of place. After all, they've had time to fill up the tree of tales with history, and to create cultures for all the other races, who can't remember ever having been anywhere else.

[Maleficent]

Does Kaldra have a backstory!?!?!? [I find it strange that they made the 3 equipment the set logo + preRl cards and then have him in the book for like 5 minutes...]

Barely. Throughout the block of novels, Glissa acquires the Kaldra equipment one by one (the sword from the Tree of Tales (stolen), the helm from the same place (given to her by a really old troll named Chunth or something), the shield from Geth's vault - which was where Kaldra was summoned).

Once summoned, Kaldra stomps on everybody and really doesn't do much else. Glissa and her party take him along to Mirrodin's Core, where Memnarch takes control of him and has Kaldra kill Bosh. Then the 5th dawn happens, and Kaldra is obliterated by the green moon.

Other than that, there's nothing to 'em. If I had to guess, I'd say he was some legendary person who crafted the equipment so when they were brought together he'd be revived in super-avatar-form, or something. *shrugs*


How old are the Elves of the Tangle, or say, Glissa? Do they have parents?

Age of the Elves is unknown, probably centuries. Glissa's age is unknown. Glissa had parents, but they were killed by Levelers.


2) There were more probes like the Mirari but none were warped like the Mirari was.

According to Karn, it was the people of Otaria who twisted it into what it became. XD


The book mentioned that memnarch has been aware since before the dawning of the first sun, at which point he got pretty freaked out due to the lack of blinkmoths- he was already a knowledge druggy at that point. Then, when they came back, he was relieved. A few hundred (?) relative years later, it happened again, but due to his consumption of serum, he believed the activation of the green sun would remove ALL blinkmoths. He couldn't survive without them, and even the replenishment ritual was to much to stand without his precious serum. I believe he started dragging stuff in from other planes many hundreds of years before the events of the book, since what glissa remembers aren't here own memories, but rather genetically coded species memories, ones that tell her she's horribly out of place. After all, they've had time to fill up the tree of tales with history, and to create cultures for all the other races, who can't remember ever having been anywhere else.

Where'd you get all that? O.o

Glissa's flares were messages being sent from Karn, weren't they?

[Syphon]

Wouldn't be too much of a stretch, since Karn DID create the entire plane, after all.

[BurnBait]

Where'd you get all that? O.o

Sticking little otherwise unimportant things together. I can't remember which book it's in, but do you know that part where memnarch is thinking, and it gives the backstory on his serum addiction? That's my source for the moons rising and the age of the plane.

As for the serum thing, there were NO blinkmoths for the years directly following the ascendance of a given moon, so it's logical to assume that a druggy doesn't want his drug to just wander off for a decade or two. As for glissa's dreams, remember that they ran through her head, but they didn't mention her by name... they just said "she" or "they", if I remember correctly. Also, the karn thing makes sense, but I'd bet it's more likely that Karn tried to send her a message, but couldn't directly, so he just triggered general feelings of discomfort and knowing you're-not-supposed-to-be-here in everyone he could... I think it had to do with anyone that had a planeswalker spark...

[Maleficent]

As for the serum thing, there were NO blinkmoths for the years directly following the ascendance of a given moon, so it's logical to assume that a druggy doesn't want his drug to just wander off for a decade or two. As for glissa's dreams, remember that they ran through her head, but they didn't mention her by name... they just said "she" or "they", if I remember correctly. Also, the karn thing makes sense, but I'd bet it's more likely that Karn tried to send her a message, but couldn't directly, so he just triggered general feelings of discomfort and knowing you're-not-supposed-to-be-here in everyone he could... I think it had to do with anyone that had a planeswalker spark...

Hm, I'm not sure about the Blinkmoth thing, don't remember that part. But I'm pretty sure Karn told Glissa he was trying to send the messages (er, awaken memories of her real home, I think), and it was because Memnarch had created a pseudo-Karn that prevented the real Karn from coming back to his plane, so he had to work through Glissa. Hm. Something like that?

[BurnBait]

that sounds about right, though I couldn't remember the reason for karn's inability to communicate directly. Also, I'm pretty sure about the blinkmoth thing. I can try to look it up for you, though, if you want.

[AlasterEisaroh]

Did Urza create Karn? If not how was Karn created?

[Syphon]

Yes, he created Karn after finding out that silver could travel through time unaffected.

[BurnBait]

On tolaria, urza was conducting experiments involving sending stuff back and forth through time, and when he found silver didn't simply disintegrate, unlike many other elements, he made a golem out of it to test his time theories. I think something else went through alright, but it wasn't durable enough to withstand the intense heat that the time travel put it through. It mentions in the book, I think, that karn is incredibly hot immediately after a transit...

I back syphon on this one.

[Syphon]

I back syphon on this one.

And so you should. You are backing the winning team.
*insert cheesy picture of big teethy grin and two thumbs up*

[BurnBait]

Or the underdog ;D Either way, I gets me some of those cooleo points, whether it's for pulling off a bad sports flick moment, or for simply winning XD

[Yawgmoth]

Did Urza create Karn? If not how was Karn created?

For some more information regarding everyone's favourite golem, you can go to Phyrexia.com (Karn's article (http://www.phyrexia.com/continuity/Karn.shtml)) - which is always great on older information (pre-Odyssey) and I guess theoreticall MTGSalvation's Wiki is good too. (Karn's wiki-article (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Karn).)

(If you were looking for more information that is.)

[Maleficent]

that sounds about right, though I couldn't remember the reason for karn's inability to communicate directly. Also, I'm pretty sure about the blinkmoth thing. I can try to look it up for you, though, if you want.

I should be able to find it. Darksteel? Think so....


Yes, he created Karn after finding out that silver could travel through time unaffected.

Minimally affected; still wasn't good enough. Not even close. O.o Thran metal worked better I think, hm....

[Tynion]

Can you tell me about Kaysa from Alliances? All I know about her (her right?) is what the card says.

[Michael_Zeora]

Kaysa Wiki-article (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Kaysa) from MTGS Is all I know about the woman.

not to be confused with Kayla bin-Kroog, Urza's Wife

[Syphon]

For some more information regarding everyone's favourite golem, you can go to Phyrexia.com (Karn's article (http://www.phyrexia.com/continuity/Karn.shtml)) - which is always great on older information (pre-Odyssey) and I guess theoreticall MTGSalvation's Wiki is good too. (Karn's wiki-article (http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Karn).)

(If you were looking for more information that is.)

Fool, don't reveal your sources! >.> If they know where to look, we're out of business!

[Yawgmoth]

Fool, don't reveal your sources! >.> If they know where to look, we're out of business!

Hmm, isn't the point of this to teach others about the storyline, and not to hand out small pieces of information hoping they will come back for seconds?

[Chrome_Kaldra]

One tidbit about Karn was that his power source originally was Xantcha's black heart. I don't know if he still has it through Invasion block though as i didn't read it. But i've read the Artifact block books twice as they were my favs. Also, Urza was conducting time experiments to undo what he and he brother did, namely, opening the portal from Phryexia to Domniaria. [by stopping him and his brother from getting the stones.]

Makes you wonder if Urza would still have become a planeswalker if he had never found the Thran powestone that became the strong/weak stones...
__________________________________________________ _________

How come Mishra was in TS but not Urza? [at least in card form, idk about storyline]

Also, was Kayla's son Urza's or Mishra's? [the one Tawnos delivered in the thunderstorm] I ask because both of them slept with Kayla. I know for certain that Mishra did, but with Urza, it was implied. [Kayla's father wanted a grandson, so kayla did the music box key trick thing to lure Urza into bed. But because there was no implying of nothing happening that night, i assumed something did, but nothing became of that...which is where i'm confused.] It is again implied that Urza knows that the son is not his, but just to be certan...

[Syphon]

And that's why I founded this office, and not you, Yawgie. ;) *ruffles his hair and beard*

As for the questions. TS was Mishra before he went all "Yay Phyrexia" and stuff. I am not sure whether it's canon or it was just a fun thing by WOTC. If it is canon, being transported into Time Spiral-era Dominiaria, one can imagine that is where his flavour text comes from. If it was just for fun, I don't know. At any rate, Urza was a planeswalker, that's one. Even if he was plucked from the past pre-planeswalkerness, he already had a card.

As for the boy, I don't think even WOTC themselves know. None of my sources know this with any certainty. I suspect this uncertainty is just a plot device. It doesn't really matter, that means.

[BurnBait]

And that's why I founded this office, and not you, Yawgie. *ruffles his hair and beard*

Hmm. I agree with yawg. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime... but you'll get the credit, since you saved his @ss.


Minimally affected; still wasn't good enough. Not even close. O.o Thran metal worked better I think, hm....

But he couldn't find enough of that too make a really good golem, and I imagine it'd be harder to instill with power... The second part is pure speculation.

[Yawgmoth]

Hmm, I just realized we have a Thran Golem around and it's flavour text, which is... Odd.

"Karn felt more secure about his value to Urza when he realized he didn't need regular trimming."

[Syphon]

Thran Metal is very dynamic and that is exactly why Urza did not use it. Imagine that thing growing bigger when travelling through time. It might get thrown off course. Silver remains the best material in the MTG universe.

[Maleficent]

Also, was Kayla's son Urza's or Mishra's? [the one Tawnos delivered in the thunderstorm] I ask because both of them slept with Kayla. I know for certain that Mishra did, but with Urza, it was implied. [Kayla's father wanted a grandson, so kayla did the music box key trick thing to lure Urza into bed. But because there was no implying of nothing happening that night, i assumed something did, but nothing became of that...which is where i'm confused.] It is again implied that Urza knows that the son is not his, but just to be certan...

Mishra's, I'm pretty sure. In the beginning of Planeswalker we hear of Jarsyl, Harbin's son, who is very much like Mishra ("black-haired and stocky, charming, amiable and quick-witted . . . Urza had glimpsed the young man just once, and that had been one time too many"). Also, Urza figured out that the time Kayla got pregnant was around the time he caught his brother with her.


But he couldn't find enough of that too make a really good golem, and I imagine it'd be harder to instill with power... The second part is pure speculation.

Actually he could, and did. In Shiv he had plans to create a thran metal golem, and they wanted Karn for payment, in addition to stopping Gherridarigaaz (Darigaaz's mother) from attacking them. But Urza ended up making Weatherlight instead. Something like that. (Been awhile since I read about that.)

There's also what ^ said about thran metal being dynamic, which would cause problems.

[Syphon]

If you look here, in the comic (which I was told is a valid source of canon), Harbin was shown with blond hair. And who did we say Urza looks like? That's right, the venerable M. Manning, also known as Luther von Draken.
http://www.phyrexia.com/images/continuity/Harbin0.jpg

[Yawgmoth]

Syphon... Maleficent is talking about Jarsyl, the son of Harbin - not Harbin himself. Anyway, since Urza and Mishra are brothers - does it even matter who the father is? Unless they have different parents, their genetic material should be quite similar and thus it wouldn't be too unlikely for a son of Mishra to look like Urza or vice versa.

EDIT: Harbin is the son of Kayla bin-Kroog and one of the Brothers, Jarsyl is the son of Harbin.

[Syphon]

Syphon... Maleficent is talking about Jarsyl, the son of Harbin - not Harbin himself. Anyway, since Urza and Mishra are brothers - does it even matter who the father is? Unless they have different parents, their genetic material should be quite similar and thus it wouldn't be too unlikely for a son of Mishra to look like Urza or vice versa.

EDIT: Harbin is the son of Kayla bin-Kroog and one of the Brothers, Jarsyl is the son of Harbin.

Uuuuh, yes. I know. :) But if you remember, Mishra has dark hair and urza has blond hair. Kayla herself was dark haired, so if you add one and two together it was either Urza's son or a third person was in play! >O This is starting to become a little "Who is Eric Cartman's father?" for me.

[Yawgmoth]

Mishra and Urza still carry the same genes, one can inherit the hair-colour from one's parents parent. Because Urza has blond hair, they have blond-haired individuals in the family, thus it isn't too unlikely for Mishra to have blond son. Or is it?

[Oblivion]

That depends.

Lets assume that Urza's mom was blonde and his dad was black-haired. Urza could have inherited his mom's colour, while dad went to Mishra. If that was the case, then Mishra's son would be black-haired as well, unless the kid's mom was blonde too, then it'll be a toss up, again.

[Michael_Zeora]

EDIT: Harbin is the son of Kayla bin-Kroog and one of the Brothers, Jarsyl is the son of Harbin.

Kayla bin-Kroog was Urza's wife, he "won" her hand in marrage through a test of strength (in which he created Urza's Avenger to do the job)

[DazBoot]

Kayla bin-Kroog was Urza's wife, he "won" her hand in marrage through a test of strength (in which he created Urza's Avenger to do the job)

That is true, we are debating who is the father, not who is the husband.

[Michael_Zeora]

Jodah claims direct linage to Urza in the TS novels when he speaks to the nonsparked Teferi. So I assume the child of Kalya bin-Kroog is Urza's and not Mishra's directly.

[BurnBait]

I would assume so, though it's possible Jodah's just being arrogant 'cuz he was trying to hit on Jhoira at the time. After all, most of the records were lost during the ice age, and since he was just a normal mage given a LOT of time to work on his skills, it's possible he only knew enough to claim ancestory without actually having it.

[Maleficent]

If you look here, in the comic (which I was told is a valid source of canon), Harbin was shown with blond hair. And who did we say Urza looks like? That's right, the venerable M. Manning, also known as Luther von Draken.


But if you remember, Mishra has dark hair and urza has blond hair. Kayla herself was dark haired, so if you add one and two together it was either Urza's son or a third person was in play! >O This is starting to become a little "Who is Eric Cartman's father?" for me.

No, Harbin had sandy-colored hair, I think the novel said, which was the same as Urza's and Mishra's father, so they couldn't tell that way. But Jarsyl was just like Mishra. And not just hair color or build-wise, personality-wise as well.

[3nd3r]

heres a question for you guys: can you make a list of planes visited over the years and list whether or not they are natural or made by a planeswalker???

[Syphon]

Whew, that's a toughie.
Let's see....
Ulgrotha from Homelands
Dominiaria from many stories
Kamigawa
Ravnica
Mirrodin/Argentum: Created
Arabian Nights
Equilor
Serra's Realm: Created
Phyrexia: Created
Rath: Created
I probably missed a few but those are the ones that spring to mind.

[Yawgmoth]

Shandalar? :P

[Syphon]

Shandalar...Yes, Shandalar too.
Wildfire
Mercadia
Azoria, home of Ravidel
Segovia, home to many leviathans.
All of these planes were natural ones.

[Yawgmoth]

Segovia - probably the most awesome plane in existence. (The Unhinged-card Little Girl would probably be 50% larger than it's average human.)

[Syphon]

You're betraying your own plane? :p

[Kamahl's Disciple]

Hey, I have a question for you guys, is there any other story that features Hans? Or is that short story with him, Saffi Eriksdotter and the Lhurgoyf all that there is? I remember he runs into more trouble, like when he crosses paths with a Revenant. I can only imagine what kind of beasts, monsters, horrors and huge creatures he would run into only to escape with his life.

Like in his own card (http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=73935).

[Syphon]

I do not think that he is actually a story character. Rather, he is a comic relief character. You have to remember that not all flavour text is from a character that appears in a book or on the cards. Same was true for Jaya for a long time.

[BurnBait]

Yeah, he's just comic relief. They built on it with the text on saffi, but she was the first real segue into hans-territory.

Also: The reason why there aren't too many artificial planes is
1. They're a pain to build
2. plenty of other planes that might just fit your purpose better
3. Inherently unstable.

That was, after all, the reason for the phyrexian invasion- yawgmoth feared that phyrexia would just collapse out from under him, so he decided to take dominaria, since it was a lot bigger, and it wouldn't just go randomly supernova.

[DazBoot]

That and he had been locked out of Dominaria (his birth plane) and sworn he would return to claim it as his own...

[Syphon]

That and he had been locked out of Dominaria (his birth plane) and sworn he would return to claim it as his own...

So even Yawgmoth is cliché. Buh. How saddening. I acutally new this but now I am typing it so that makes it real.

[Maleficent]

Don't forget Pyrulea!


That was, after all, the reason for the phyrexian invasion- yawgmoth feared that phyrexia would just collapse out from under him, so he decided to take dominaria, since it was a lot bigger, and it wouldn't just go randomly supernova.

Er, nope.


That and he had been locked out of Dominaria (his birth plane) and sworn he would return to claim it as his own...

Not quite, and it's only partially cliché. He wanted to improve upon everything (and be the king of it all, of course), and Phyrexia was his plane for doing so. Well, that didn't work out, and he couldn't bring salvation to the people of Dominaria through Phyrexia when he was shut out, so he planned to make Dominaria into New Phyrexia by killing everything and raising it anew (or so he says). It was his "birthright," he thinks.

Then he turned paranoid and throught Gaea (and Weatherlight) was Rebbec, and thought to take her over and become god of Dominaria for her betrayal too. XD

[Syphon]

Of course, he failed miserably and the world as we know it came to be. I wouldn't be surprised if he's going to be back for another round sooner or later. Or perhaps another [ugh..not another one!] alt-world will have him win the Invasion. That'd be one cool premise...

[Maleficent]

Aye. I doubt he'll come back through Wizards though. :( That Brady fellow seems intent on putting him down.

[Syphon]

You mean Brady Dumbermouth? Oh yeah. He is a meanie! >(

[Yawgmoth]

My theory is that he want to be the only -moth in Magic: the Gathering...

[Syphon]

He fails miserable, there's also lots of Blinkmoth things. And FYI, his name is muth. Like mutt.

[Chrome_Kaldra]

7 questions:

1) Does the events of TS altering planeswalkers and making them weaker extend only into the future, or backwards too? Like could there be an alter-universe where uber walkers lose their powers?

2) What's been happening to Urza since he became only a head? [what's with that? Why doesn't he recreate a body?]

3) What's the status on Mishra? [both original and TS]

4) Jeska is dead right? Sacrificed her spark to close some rift? Did she mention doing anything in her time with karn around the multiverse? [i have a naggering suspicion she made Alara or something]

5) When the planar overlay ocured, of Rath on Dominaria, what was done about it? Odyssey/Onslaught Block doesn't mention anything about that, so i assumed the overlay was dealt with. How so?

6) When Kamahl stabbed Karona with the mirari sword, and she 'died', thus appearing on Mirrodin, what happened to the mana she 'stole' from dominaria? The sword went with her to Mir to my knowledge. [i remember reading Karn pulls it out and heals her]

7) Where did Kaldra come from? He's an avatar, a spirit bound in flesh, thus he must have been a real person at sometime. But Ur-golem qutoes and stuff say nothing about him. Did Memnarch bring him to Mir in the form of the pieces? Why is the sheild so large and the other two pieces not?

[Syphon]

1) Anything might happen in alternate worlds, so my answer to that is definately yes.
2) He exploded along with the Legacy weapon, AFAICR.
3) Original: Dead/tormented in Phyrexia. TS: No clue.
4) Yes, yes, no.
5) I'm assuming it was undone when Yawgmoth got his butt handed to him by the Null Moon
6) The mana went back into the world, making things go back to normal.
7) Kaldra is probably some piece of lore. Some sort of ancient hero or some other. I don't know if Memnarch brought him, perhaps he was there already before Memnarch. Also, the shield probably seems large. You can't compare them.

[Yawgmoth]

On Urza's Head: He and his eyes were apprently merged with Karn, I seem to remember Karn saying something to that effect afterwards. (Gerrard also merged as well as the Legacy.)

Mishra either died at Argoth or is in the Punishment Sphere of Phyrexia, we do not know for sure as Urza was not entirely reliable at the time. In Time Spiral, a young Mishra was rifted to the future for a short time, which his flavour text seem to indicate being the inspiration for him in some way. Might have been how he got the Mak Fawa? (In the comics he gets to Phyrexia in a dream, the dream could have been retconned into a time rift, I do not remember how he gets the Dragon Engine in the book - although to be honest I do not think they thought about this and merely did what would seem cool.)

Rath was overlayed on top of Dominaria, in Time Spiral - flowstone is still left in some way (it was the soil of Rath) - this is probably remnants of the Rathi Overlay. How did the majority of the flowstone "disappear"? I have a good theory for that: Yawgmoth constructed flowstone, they are nano-robots made to obey the will of Yawgmoth's chosen (the Evincars or similar, probably also those strong/smart enough to command it otherwise as well) - Yawgmoth is referenced to as becoming aerial neurons in the Phyrexian Creations-story. So I would assume that he transcended from his human form into a nano-robotic cloud (with a center of consciousness that the Weatherlight saw) - this cloud could probably be set to pick apart other objects, thus acting like a death cloud. It was this cloud that exited Phyrexia and entered Dominaria, Yawgmoth as the god-mind of Phyrexia commanded all the soil of the Rathi Overlay to rise and fight. (In the novel he reanimates all dead things in the whole world, including the soil - creating mud golems of sorts.) I assume that he is here merely telling the flowstone-nanites to form humanoid shapes and fight. When the Legacy was completed and eradicated the black heart of Yawgmoth, I would assume that the majority of all flowstone was destroyed as well. This could however be untrue, as we have very little information as to what happened with the world after the Apocalypse, the whole book was very much WTFOMGBBQ.

[MystaC]

all of that sounds really interesting. WTFOMGBBQ.*what does that mean?

[Yawgmoth]

WTFOMGBBQ = What the **** oh my god barbeque.

Also, on Kaldra - if you look at the token art - the shield is not oversized, merely the size of a "tower shield" or "full shield" (I do not know the correct English word) - sort of like what the Roman legionnaries used. Big, gets in the way, +2 to AC, oddly shaped.
As to the man Kaldra himself, I believe he is just a generic unfleshed mythic hero that they never gave real substance. He could have been a sort of previous Glissa that failed?

[Friend Mairsil]

everything Syphon said is right except question 5


5) When the planar overlay ocured, of Rath on Dominaria, what was done about it? Odyssey/Onslaught Block doesn't mention anything about that, so i assumed the overlay was dealt with. How so?

the answer is no one did anything about the overlay. no instead they fought the armies of yawgmoth and yawgmoth himself. after the dark lords defeat, the land stayed exactly as it was. the stronghold is still in the bottom of a caved in mountain, i forgot the name of the forest that overlayed, but it was near keldon lands. that was still there during the TS books.

no one could change what happen, because rath was melted into domaria. if they would have removed Rath they would have destoryed the land it was glued to.

[BurnBait]

I believe the forest was the skyshroud forest, realm of Freyalise.

[Grumpherys]

now tell me how this whole plane thing works its like planets or more like dimensions? if planets then how did rathi overlay Dominaria?

[MystaC]

planets within dimensions i'd say. like earth is in this galaxy. and maybe its because Rath was designed to phase through the Blind Eternities.

[Maleficent]

2) What's been happening to Urza since he became only a head? [what's with that? Why doesn't he recreate a body?]

He couldn't create a new body. When he dueled with Gerrard in Yawgmoth's Inner Sanctum (Phyrexian Arena), the weapons Yawgmoth provided were enchanted to destroy the very soul, amongst other things. So when Gerrard decapitated Urza with Yawgmoth's halberd it permanently severed the rest of his body from his head. He lived because all a 'walker needs to live is their brain, but the rest was gone.


7) Where did Kaldra come from? He's an avatar, a spirit bound in flesh, thus he must have been a real person at sometime. But Ur-golem qutoes and stuff say nothing about him. Did Memnarch bring him to Mir in the form of the pieces? Why is the sheild so large and the other two pieces not?

Glissa summoned him by arranging the three pieces of equipment. Memnarch eventually took control of him, made him kill Bosh, and was obliterated by the dawning of Mirrodin's green moon (the Fifth Dawn). Other than that... there is nothing.

[Syphon]

All in all, Kaldra was freaking useless.

[Maleficent]

Basically.

[Syphon]

Basically, advancedly and expertly, Maleficent. Also ,how did you get away with just that one word? X.x

[Friend Mairsil]

now tell me how this whole plane thing works its like planets or more like dimensions? if planets then how did rathi overlay Dominaria?

planes are just a different form of exisistance. they can occupy the same space without the other knowing.

now as for the rathi overlay...yawgmoth designed a great big machine of nanites(flowstone). this machine was designed to create a sort of replica of domaria*. when the plane got close enough to one other the overlay happened, and the rest is history ;) if you dont get what i mean im sure someelse will clear it up.

[Chrome_Kaldra]

He couldn't create a new body. When he dueled with Gerrard in Yawgmoth's Inner Sanctum (Phyrexian Arena), the weapons Yawgmoth provided were enchanted to destroy the very soul, amongst other things. So when Gerrard decapitated Urza with Yawgmoth's halberd it permanently severed the rest of his body from his head. He lived because all a 'walker needs to live is their brain, but the rest was gone.

But a walker's body is just energy, a projection of their mind. Strange how it could be permanent.



Glissa summoned him by arranging the three pieces of equipment. Memnarch eventually took control of him, made him kill Karn, and was obliterated by the dawning of Mirrodin's green moon (the Fifth Dawn). Other than that... there is nothing.

You mean Bosh, not Karn. :D

As for the sheild, the halm and sword both changed size to suit Glissa, but not the sheild. It was the floor of Geth's vault, where he held all his coinage. I too found it strane that kaldra was a minor character that did nothing really, after the 3 peices were the set icons and PrRl cards...

[Syphon]

I too found it strane that kaldra was a minor character that did nothing really, after the 3 peices were the set icons and PrRl cards...

You're just disappointed your namesake didn't get much time in the spotlight :p
Also, I think that planes are just long and flat, like people used to think the earth was.

That would subsequently make it easier for planes to overlay.

[Maleficent]

Basically, advancedly and expertly, Maleficent. Also ,how did you get away with just that one word? X.x

It takes years of experience and practice. ;)


But a walker's body is just energy, a projection of their mind. Strange how it could be permanent.

This is Yawgmoth's Inner Sanctum we're talking about. :D


You mean Bosh, not Karn. :D

Er, yes. XD *edits* :paranoid:


I too found it strane that kaldra was a minor character that did nothing really, after the 3 peices were the set icons and PrRl cards...

Could be he was unreasonably powerful and the author didn't really know what to do with 'em. XD


Also, I think that planes are just long and flat, like people used to think the earth was.

Pyrulea? Maybe Dominaria and Rath were flat....

[Syphon]

I think so. I mean, it'd be easier to plop one flat thing on another flat thing.

[Michael_Zeora]

Pyrulea? Maybe Dominaria and Rath were flat....

Invasion Plans

[BurnBait]

now tell me how this whole plane thing works its like planets or more like dimensions? if planets then how did rathi overlay Dominaria?

The planes are supposed to interact like planets in the universe, methinks, rather than puzzle pieces or graham crackers. however, the vastness of those planes could be large enough to CONTAIN planets, for instance, so that some planes are limited to one body of land, while others (like ours) are expansive and incredibly inclusive. There are different dimensions, like Z-Space or Hyperspace that are made to occupy the same space, but not the same energy envelope.


but a walker's body is just energy, a projection of their mind. Strange how it could be permanent.

The hacking of bits off his body destroyed his control over himself bit by bit. He had the power, but no way to access it... Which is why Karn could still go all planeswalker when he got the powerstones: No such limitations.

[MystaC]

well Urza's head was cut off by a special weapon Yawgmoth made that stole ones lifeforce or soul.

[guest1234]

Hello all, and welcome to my clinic: Odds and ends in the storylines.
Here, you can ask any story related questions you might have concerning Magic the Gathering. Don't worry if yours seems a stupid question, because:
There are no stupid questions, only those unasked

Okay. Shards of Alara. Who shattered the plane into shards, when, why, and how? Did this character use purple mana? Was this event somehow connected to the Time Spiral fiasco? Nicol Bolas showed up in the TS books then said he had to go some place. Did this have something to do with Alara's Conflux?

[Michael_Zeora]

When: About 1000 years ago to the set's storyline
Why: ???
How: ??? - I'll bet it could be blamed on several reasons - without a doubt though it's the fault of a old Planeswalker - probably Urza.

[Chrome_Kaldra]

How: ??? - I'll bet it could be blamed on several reasons - without a doubt though it's the fault of a old Planeswalker - probably Urza.

Urza !@#$ed up everything. Really, if you look at it, it's all his fault. When he ascended, the destruction that caused brought the ice age, he let Phryexia into Dominaria, and because of that, the invasion takes place, Barrin casts his World spell, Karn creates the Mirari, that leads to karona, TS block happens, and look where we are. >.>" Nice going *ss. :paranoid:

But he's still cool...

If i'm wrong about something, correct me.

[Friend Mairsil]

without a doubt though it's the fault of a old Planeswalker - probably Urza.
oh that would be so weak if they choose Urza for that role. also i doubt it will be anyone we know, seeing as they took care of nestalgia(sp?) with TS block. i thik they really are starting off new in the truest sense.

[Robb]

I'll bet it could be blamed on several reasons - without a doubt though it's the fault of a old Planeswalker - probably Urza.

The butterfly effect must be a real pain in the ass when you can create whole universes with your mind and live forever.

[Yawgmoth]

I'd argue that everything is Yawgmoth's fault, in The Thran (chronlogically the first book in the timeline of Magic) he set in motion everything that would later come. With the help of a Planeswalker (whom he later (more-or-less) killed) he found a fitting plane to house his dreams (what would later become Phyrexia.) He bonded with the plane's core (which was something extremely dangerous, and would probably have utterly destroyed a lesser man) and they created a portal from it to Dominaria in the caves of Koilos (beneath the Thran capital Halcyon) - this portal was controlled by a powerstone that Yawgmoth hid inside Glacian. Glacian was a unignited Planeswalker (he had the spark but never ignited it, it was for him that the other Planeswalker came.) After some events - Yawgmoth was forced to momentarily retreat from Dominaria into Phyrexia. When there his beloved Rebbec betrayed him and used the powerstone that had been hidden in Glacian to seal the portal. Yawgmoth was not happy and was sealed away from Dominaria for many years.

These events set up the creation of the monsters Urza and Mishra would become. They were brothers and rivals, but when they found the caves of Koilos and ruins of ancient Thran civilization - they also found the powerstone that powered the gate to Phyrexia. (The stone had also been imprinted with the "soul" of Glacian to some degree) The stone was split for some reason and formed two new stones: The Mighstone and the Weakstone. One for each brother. (Mishra also travelled to Phyrexia in some way and probably struck a deal with Gix/Yawgmoth.) Their rivalry later escalated into a great war, everything blew up and the powerstone halves became Urza's new eyes. And then Urza did lots of stuff to worsen things and lots of stuff blew up as a result.

It all began when the Thran Council exiled Yawgmoth and his eugenicists (doctors that believed in radical things like biology and medicine instead of only magic. They called virii (viruses) and bacteria "little beasties".) So simple politics could radically alter the whole Multiverse (via the Mending and other things) if you piss off a guy willing to go to any lengths achieve his goals.

(That should be more or less correct.)

As for the splintering of Alara, it was caused by some great shift - probably either the cracks in time/space that happened during Time Spiral or the Mending that happened at the end of it. (The Mending rearranged how the Multiverse and Planeswalkers worked to some degree and it would very likely have big effects somewhere.)

(Also, Planeswalkers couldn't create entire universes, they could create artificial planes - which is quite bothersome I'd imagine. Artificial planes were usually of a limited space and lifetime. Both Mirrodin and Phyrexia were for example more or less limited to one celestial body. (I have no idea what is beyond that, maybe it is in some sort of bubble floating around in the Blind Eternities? And when the bubble bursts it gets destroyed by "raw entropy" and "wild magical energies".))

[Yawgmoth]

I'd argue that everything is Yawgmoth's fault, in The Thran (chronlogically the first book in the timeline of Magic) he set in motion everything that would later come. With the help of a Planeswalker (whom he later (more-or-less) killed) he found a fitting plane to house his dreams (what would later become Phyrexia.) He bonded with the plane's core (which was something extremely dangerous, and would probably have utterly destroyed a lesser man) and they created a portal from it to Dominaria in the caves of Koilos (beneath the Thran capital Halcyon) - this portal was controlled by a powerstone that Yawgmoth hid inside Glacian. Glacian was a unignited Planeswalker (he had the spark but never ignited it, it was for him that the other Planeswalker came.) After some events - Yawgmoth was forced to momentarily retreat from Dominaria into Phyrexia. When there his beloved Rebbec betrayed him and used the powerstone that had been hidden in Glacian to seal the portal. Yawgmoth was not happy and was sealed away from Dominaria for many years.

These events set up the creation of the monsters Urza and Mishra would become. They were brothers and rivals, but when they found the caves of Koilos and ruins of ancient Thran civilization - they also found the powerstone that powered the gate to Phyrexia. (The stone had also been imprinted with the "soul" of Glacian to some degree) The stone was split for some reason and formed two new stones: The Mighstone and the Weakstone. One for each brother. (Mishra also travelled to Phyrexia in some way and probably struck a deal with Gix/Yawgmoth.) Their rivalry later escalated into a great war, everything blew up and the powerstone halves became Urza's new eyes. And then Urza did lots of stuff to worsen things and lots of stuff blew up as a result.

It all began when the Thran Council exiled Yawgmoth and his eugenicists (doctors that believed in radical things like biology and medicine instead of only magic. They called virii (viruses) and bacteria "little beasties".) So simple politics could radically alter the whole Multiverse (via the Mending and other things) if you piss off a guy willing to go to any lengths achieve his goals.

(That should be more or less correct.)

As for the splintering of Alara, it was caused by some great shift - probably either the cracks in time/space that happened during Time Spiral or the Mending that happened at the end of it. (The Mending rearranged how the Multiverse and Planeswalkers worked to some degree and it would very likely have big effects somewhere.)

(Also, Planeswalkers couldn't create entire universes, they could create artificial planes - which is quite bothersome I'd imagine. Artificial planes were usually of a limited space and lifetime. Both Mirrodin and Phyrexia were for example more or less limited to one celestial body. (I have no idea what is beyond that, maybe it is in some sort of bubble floating around in the Blind Eternities? And when the bubble bursts it gets destroyed by "raw entropy" and "wild magical energies".))

[Maleficent]

Haha, I can see people going back in time and showing the Thran everything they caused by exiling Yawgmoth, and for close-minded reasoning that wasn't even true. "What do you have to say for yourselves?!!" "Oops...." XD