3CB Type 4 Round 2

[guest1234]

Results of round 1 are coming. I chose Lorwyn Block for round 1 because it was small enough for people to get a handle on a new format, and because fewer cards makes it easy for me to manage the interactions, and because I wanted to discover a few monster Lorwyn cards.

Meanwhile I wish to open the floor for discussing the format for round 2. The problems in round 1 seem to be:
1. The card pool is awfully small. This worked okay when everyone was new, but once we know the good cards, I think it will be too constraining.
2. Counterspells seemed weird. The rules restrict you to 1 card per turn, so we tend to get "I play Monster. I counter." and nothing can be done because your 1 spell is used up.
3. Discard and counterspells tend to make proactive play impossible. There are cards that work around this, but the viable card pool becomes rather limited then.
4. Type 4 can be rather complicated figuring out interactions of instants and flash spells.

So for round 2 I propose:
1. Rule change: You may only play cards on your own turn.
2. Format change: Standard instead of Lorwyn Block.

Discuss.

[gamerpunk666]

round two! im on it ill post in a bit

[Mogg]

I'm not sure how it'll work out, but I think your suggested changes would take this game in a good direction. Standard is a good next step in terms of format size and the City of Solitude rule is a decent solution to the problem. Instant effects tend to not play a huge effect in regular XCB's anyway, where Force of Will is banned for having too potent an effect. Thanks for reviving this game.

[guest1234]

Are any standard cards on the regular 3CB banned list? Are these in need of banning here?

[Mogg]

Barren Glory and Voidstone Gargoyle are banned. I think Barren Glory should definitely remain banned. Voidstone Gargoyle, however, might be fine. In type 4, space isn't devoted to making mana, so it's possible to run more threats and answers, making Voidstone Gargoyle less of an issue.

[killer]

doubling season
ajani goldmane
cancel

should do pretty well i think,
throw out the token, cancel anything scare, and attack for the win i guess . :)

[guest1234]

Hi killer. If you want to join, you may PM me a list, although we haven't started yet. Cancel will be useless as you may only place one spell per turn, and only on your turn (see first post). Aside from that, don't make the mistake of assuming your opponent has no answers to your threats.

[gamerpunk666]

spells on your own turn is too hurtful you should limit it to no counterspells.

oh and i was thinking one activated ability per turn is too small the limit should be higher like 3 or 2 times.

[sethrpg]

I concure with gamerpunk666, and no activated abilitie limit.
however, would Spellstutter Sprite count as a counter spell?

wheres the results?

[gamerpunk666]

yeah where are the results and yes spellstutter sprite or whatever is a spell, the only thing that isnt a spell is land or morphing creatures.

[guest1234]

Results are (mostly) in the other thread. Have a look!

I suggested the only-your-turn restriction because counterspells work kind of funky and can't be worked around, which is kind of lame. The trouble is under the previous rules, Game Breaker; Game Breaker; Cancel draws against Squire; Cancel; Cancel and I don't see how to beat this.

I've thought about it now, and I'm willing to go with a no-counter rule instead. Anyone for no-discard too? Anyone want to argue me back to "only-your-turn"?

re: "one activated ability" - the rule I want is to limit reactivating the same ability. If something reads "R: deal 1 damage to target opponent", that's broken with infinite mana and no restrictions. So any ability where the cost is mana should only be allowed one use per turn. (Unless we change it to 2 or 3 like gamerpunk suggests.) Other than that, if you have lots of abilities on the table, you may use them all!

[gamerpunk666]

oh because i had a pact of negation could you switch is with another [/card]slaughter pact[/card]

[sethrpg]

"one activated ability" - the rule I want is to limit reactivating the same ability. If something reads "R: deal 1 damage to target opponent", that's broken with infinite mana and no restrictions. So any ability where the cost is mana should only be allowed one use per turn. (Unless we change it to 2 or 3 like gamerpunk suggests.) Other than that, if you have lots of abilities on the table, you may use them all!

How about just no infinite mana sinks, this way can do it, as long as theirs another restriction, like discarding a card, or tapping.

heres the two rules i want to see
1)No mana sinks
2)No x mana cost
3)No counter spells
4)No discard

plus the origional rules,

1) infinite man
2) one spell per turn.

[Mogg]

Here is my attempt to create a set of rules. I've copied the standard rules for XCB. Rules specific to Type 4 are in bold.

Basic Rules
- Your deck is composed of exactly 3 cards, all of which start in your hand.
- Your deck has no sideboard.
- You don't lose as a result of not being able to draw a card.
- You can see your opponent's hand and will always make the best possible play.
- Random effects always go in their owner's opponent's favor.
- You may play no more than one spell each turn.
- At all times, you have infinite mana of every color in your mana pool. Your mana pool does not empty.
- If an activated ability of a card includes only mana as a cost, you may play that ability only once each turn.
- Where :Xmana: appears in the cost of a spell or ability, :0mana: must be chosen for :Xmana:.*
- All other rules of magic remain unchanged, unless otherwise stated.


Deck-Building Rules
- You may not submit a deck that can win before the opponent's first main phase.
- You may not submit a deck that can force an opponent to lose any cards from his or her hand.**
- You may not include a card that is illegal in T1 (Classic). You may, however, include any number of restricted cards.
- You may not include a card that contains any of the following phrases: "counter target", "counter that" or "counter all".***
- You may not include a card that appears on the 3CB Type 4 Banned List.

*To keep options open, it's better to not ban cards, where possible. Rather, this rule takes away the part of the card that would make it unfair.
**There are effects, such as Mesmeric Fiend's triggered ability which would cause an opponent to effectively discard without using the word "discard".
***"No counter spells" is ambiguous. The following cards might still be playable because they are not instants that counter a spell: Nullstone Gargoyle, Mystic Snake, Ertai, Wizard Adept. However, cards such as Avoid Fate might not be playable because a spell is countered if all of its targets are illegal when it attempts to resolve. The rule is worded in its current form to avoid these ambiguities.

Let me know what you think of these rules.

I'd also suggest that Barren Glory and Voidstone Gargoyle be banned. Other cards should be banned when the format expands, but in the standard environment, those are the only cards that seem to warrant banning.

[guest1234]

I accept these rules. Let's get the game started! Deadline is next Friday Nov 9.
PS. The final results are in for the other thread.

[Mogg]

Just to be clear, are you also confirming that Barren Glory and Voidstone Gargoyle are on the banned list for this round?

[guest1234]

Just to be clear, are you also confirming that Barren Glory and Voidstone Gargoyle are on the banned list for this round?

I confirm.

[Mogg]

I understand that it takes some time to calculate results, but as we're approaching two weeks since decklists were due, I was wondering if results will be posted soon. I'm perfectly willing to help, by the way.